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Post by racechick on May 18, 2018 7:05:11 GMT
I spotted this on another forum. It’s actually a very detailed report on the Spanish GP and it’s written by Mark Hughes, a technical guy. It talks about strategies etc and why things happened as they did in the race. There’s a section in it that looks at ‘ debunking conspiracy theories’. It looks at the tyre compound change ( Ferrari pushed for this not just Mercedes as some would have us believe) It also mentions the battery trick Ferrari are employing. I don’t think the article mentioned the aerodynamic winglets on the Ferrari halo, but I may have missed it...it’s a long article. www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-spanish-grand-prix-report
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Post by Wß on May 19, 2018 3:20:12 GMT
Some people think Ferrari is using the supraconductivity (techno fiction) or the Tesla solution with fuel cells coupled to motors, a little bit like batteries of bikes with electrical assistance. The extra lever under Vettel's steering wheel might play a role then. These are just hypotheses. People I trust have stated the level is likely a brake bias adjustment to "help" mid corner. Not so much concerned with that but 20 additional HP due to higher than the 4Kilojule capacity on the battery is a concern.
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Post by RyRy on May 19, 2018 6:00:58 GMT
The whole tyre conspiracy was started by a media outlet suggesting it was Mercedes that had asked for it, where as during pre-season testing multiple teams including Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren (not sure about Ferrari) asked for it and Pirelli said they were already going to do it.
We get to Friday and if you look at all of the runs that teams did, Mercedes struggled to get the soft tyres up to temperature and it took them 5-6 laps where as Ferrari & Red Bull could get them up to temperature within 1-2 laps. It was clear very early on that the super soft tyres were giving up towards the end of the lap.
We get to Saturday Mercedes spanked Ferrari & Red Bull in quallifying, locking out the front row... they went out on supersofts and were being beaten in the 3rd sector (losing a fair chunk of time) against Ferrari & Red Bull, they chose to stay on the supersofts for their second which they had to do because it was taking them too long to get the softs warmed up so they had to gamble where as other teams could try the soft tyre and because these tyres can be pushed easily for an entire lap it meant their lap time was very similar and in some cases faster than the supersoft (For Red Bull it was equal). Hamilton & Bottas did their second run a little different and were a little calmer in S1 so they had life left for S3 however even with doing that they were still 3 tenths down on Ferrari & Red Bull in S3.
Bare in mind this was after Ferrari had comfortably had pole position the previous few races... however people were ignoring/forgetting the fact that Ferrari got pole on the non-downforce circuits where as Mercedes got pole on the downforce circuit (Australia) and you have to also take into account how crazy fast Mercedes were back in pre-season testing, they were hot favourites to get pole for Barcelona.
After qualli Vettel stirred the pot saying something about the tyres, which got more and more blind tifosi banding together.
On Sunday, Hamilton spanked the shit out of them all and again Vettel stirred the pot again and got even more blind tifosi going nuts...
We had testing this week and Vettel did a tyre test where he ran the old-tread tyres and compared them against the new tread tyres and with the old ones he had even worse blistering, which is saying something because his blistering in the race on Sunday was pretty bad. He then later admitted that Pirelli were right to change the tyre tread and that if they had kept the old tread tyre Ferrari would have had an even tougher weekend. After everything it looks like Ferrari were actually the ones who gained the biggest benefit from the tyre tread change.
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As for the battery thing, I mentioned this in Bahrain, China and again in Baku were Ferrari were somehow out-performing Mercedes on battery deployment and if Ferrari are doing some sort of battery trick it would certainly make sense. I don't see how Merecedes can fall that far behind on deployment when they were that far ahead last year.
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Post by Wß on May 20, 2018 10:37:53 GMT
I posted this in the race thread but maybe it's better here.
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Post by racechick on May 20, 2018 17:43:42 GMT
This is what Mark Hughes said about the tyres and the battery trick in the article I posted earlier......
Conspiracy debunking
1) The request for thinner-gauge tyres on fast corner tracks had come from a number of teams – but led by Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari – after winter testing here on the new surface had revealed worrying degrees of blistering.
2) Pirelli finally agreed to the request on the weekend of the Bahrain Grand Prix – i.e. after just one race: a race (Melbourne) at which the Mercedes had been the dominant car.
3) Such nonsense assumed that anyone had sufficient understanding of the alchemy of the Pirelli-car-track temperature relationship that it could modify the tyre in a way that was sure to have the required differing effect on each car.
But there was conspiracy in the other direction too.
The Mercs had captured the front row – so this theory went – because this was the first race since the FIA had discovered that Ferrari had been deploying more than the permitted 4kj of stored energy per lap in the four previous events. Now that the extra output on the battery had been discovered, along with the extra ECU within the battery’s casing, so Ferrari had been trimmed back to normal power – and consequently was a tenth or so behind Mercedes rather than a couple of tenths ahead. In exchange, the conspiracists explained, Ferrari had changed its mind about not voting in favour of the FIA’s proposed 2019 aero reg changes. Ok, this was based on slightly more solid information – the FIA had actually looked at Ferrari’s energy store in Baku and requested an explanation for how it worked, and Ferrari had switched its position on the 2019 regs. But.
1) Yes, but so had Mercedes. If there was a quid-pro-quo, it was a trade-off in the proposed 2021 engine regs for something that both Ferrari and Mercedes wanted.
2) GPS analysis by Mercedes suggested that there was next to zero offset between the two engines around Barcelona and that the difference in qualifying lap time was wholly accounted for by lower apex speeds for Ferrari at Turns 4, 7 and 9.
Even Mercedes was saying the anti-Ferrari story was nonsense.
....I’m not sure I completely understand the technicalities here. It seems Hughes is saying Ferrari AND Mercedes were somehow involved in battery stuff connected to next year’s regs? And Ferrari AND Mercedes ( plus others teams) requested a change to the rubber. Have I interpreted that correctly?
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Post by racechick on May 24, 2018 6:50:29 GMT
Or, reading it again in the cool light of day.... Many teams requested a rubber change including Ferrari. Ferrari WERE doing the battery trick and got caught out. But the battery trick didn’t have a great deal of effect. And whilst Ferrari, having been caught out on the battery trick, changed its mind about supporting the 2019 regs, so Mercedes changed it’s mind about supporting the regs . So that change of mind may have had nothing to do with being caught cheating on the battery.
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Post by London on May 26, 2018 18:00:48 GMT
Green light for Ferrari: FIA are satisfied with the changes in their new energy systemThe battery topic is done. The FIA gave Ferrari green light. After Ferrari has applied the changes requested by the FIA to the energy management system, it should be impossible to smuggle more power from the battery than allowed past the sensor.
FIA: "We are satisfied with what was presented to us"
A protest of a competition team would therefore make little sense.
@ u/SEBASTlANVETTEL
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Post by racechick on May 26, 2018 18:39:12 GMT
So does that mean Ferrari got away with battery cheating? Or they have to stop doing it?
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Post by London on May 26, 2018 18:44:57 GMT
Automotorundsport suggested that Ferrari have stopped doing it.
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Post by racechick on May 26, 2018 18:57:28 GMT
Ok, fair enough. You try to cheat, you get caught out, you stop doing it. Can’t fault the logic.
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Post by RyRy on May 26, 2018 21:33:58 GMT
So...
The accusations got bad because of how Ferrari were able to have ERS deployment all the way down the long straight in Baku, something no other team including Mercedes were able to do which tells you straight away that either Ferrari have massively improved their ERS or were doing some sort of trickery. It wasn't as noticeable at other tracks so it wasn't as obvious something was going on.
Ferrari denied it, several teams contacted Charlie Whiting / FIA to get it looked into without making a protest. The FIA requested Ferrari to make some changes and add some extra FIA code/sensors to prevent/detect overuse.
I doubt multiple teams would take this to the FIA if they didn't have some sort of evidence / viable theory and I doubt the FIA would investigate if they didn't see/believe it too... so in all likelyhood Ferrari were using a loophole or were cheating and now because the FIA have something in place preventing them from abusing it they will just stop doing it.
It's hard to tell from Monaco because this is an aero/chassis track not an engine track.
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Post by London on May 26, 2018 22:31:30 GMT
FIA knew Ferrari was cheating. Same with the split mirror, Antony Davidson said it was odd and their mirrors are all about aero. And the allowance to mount the mirrors to the halo just after RB reported to the FIA that their retrovisor were slightly illegal in China, they were a bit too far in front of the sidepods and they are still used to cover the gap in the floor from above to this day. One week later Ferrari was the only team to have the upgrade in Spain and yet if teams did not have reported something was wrong with the inglets to the FIA, I wonder if they would have investigated on their legality. Dont forget the oil burning suspicion and the blowing rear wing with the ingenious engine mapping.
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Ferrari
May 26, 2018 22:47:25 GMT
Wß likes this
Post by London on May 26, 2018 22:47:25 GMT
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Post by dogued on May 27, 2018 2:06:35 GMT
FIA: Ok Ferrari, we believe you're doing something naughty with the battery. We want you to show use exactly what you do!
Ferrari: Ok, *rambles off on 15 different tangents from the relation of the deployment of power to the sun setting in Tuscany, all mixed together with an assortment of technical terms in mixed English/Italian*
FIA: (Charlie, did that make sense?) Charlie: (Buggered if I know! Nik?) Tombazis: (I didn't even understand it when I WORKED there!)
FIA: Ok, ummm, err, well.... just stop it please!
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Ferrari
May 27, 2018 16:15:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by London on May 27, 2018 16:15:19 GMT
Ferrari and FIA made a deal to not be penalized from their cheating.
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Post by racechick on May 27, 2018 16:34:22 GMT
Ferrari and FIA made a deal to not be penalized from their cheating. That is SOOOOO bad!
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Post by London on May 27, 2018 18:46:49 GMT
Ferrari and FIA made a deal to not be penalized from their cheating. That is SOOOOO bad! Charlie admitted indirectly that Ferrari was cheating. He also mentionned Allison and Sassi but not by their names, something that should have not been mentionned.
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Post by racechick on Jul 25, 2018 19:42:52 GMT
Sad news that Ferrari’s Sergio Marchionne has died. He was only 66. I’d got him mixed up. Thought he was the grey haired quietlly spoken one that is at the GP’s, but it’s a different one. Have to say I’ve been far more positive about Ferrari of late. They seem calmer, more focused. They’ve brought the fight to Mercedes and have a very fast car now. If this was down to this guy he will be very missed.
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Post by Hammer on Aug 10, 2018 15:56:08 GMT
Check out the woo hoo at 3:13, had to replay that part 10 times to amuse myself.
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Post by racechick on Sept 1, 2018 6:05:06 GMT
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