Kyviat should be sent back to Toro Rosso and Max brought up to Red Bull. Yesterday we saw how inexperienced Daniil was, overcooking it time and time again at turn 1 in attempts to either overtake or stay ahead and always coming out the short end.
Max drove a mature and thought through race yesterday.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love this guys attitude and confidence. He says he wouldn't be fazed going up against Lewis . I don't care who may teammate is, he said , So long as I'm in a champioship winning car.
Brundle is predicting Verstappen will end up at Ferrari or Merceces.
Well that's mighty profound of Brundle! How long have we been saying that?
They reckon there will be a bidding war between Ferrari and Mercedes for this driver and I can see exactly why. In the short term Vettel might not want him in the team. I doubt Lewis would be bothered who he has alongside him, but merc , so long as they feel they can secure both championships, may be happier without the intense battle between Max and Lewis.
But forget the short term. This guy is the future. He's the one with the spark, the something else, and his trump card is he has ten years on the current cream of the crop. Mercedes and Ferrari want him tied up for the future. And they want to ensure they have him and not their main competitor. Red Bull will also want to hold on to him. But to get him, they need to offer a race seat. He was offered reserve this year with Mercedes but turned it down because he wanted a race seat, so he was loaned to Torro Rosso. So Mercedes have a sort of claim. But it will be interesting to watch. If it comes to it I think Mercedes would drop Rosberg to secure Max for the future, even at the expense of a few turbulent years.
That's because they're already bidding to get him, the fact that he's always been impressive in the wet in previous racing series and we see it in F1 already I would pay a shit ton if I was Mercedes because you'd then have two drivers who are natural racing drivers who both excel in the wet. I've always rated drivers who can excel in the wet as better drivers as they can feel the grip and adjust accordingly
I agree RyRy. I think Mercedes should go all out to get him. ( and thats from a Lewis fan who knows it will be a harder task for Lewis against Max that against Rosberg) There'll be some fireworks Im sure, but what a delight, those two together. I've fancied that pairing for a while. If they get him he'd be in the car in 2017. Not long.
“A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
One race into the season and the reading between the lines rumor mill is already at full tilt?!?! Oy vey.
GPToday -With reports doing the rounds in Italy suggesting that Max Verstappen’s Red Bull contract may not be 100% bulletproof, the Dutchman has thrown some praise in the direction of Ferrari number 1 Sebastian Vettel.
The young Dutchman revealed earlier this month that contract negotiations with Red Bull were completed, “We already have done. Of course, I have a contract with Red Bull and I am very happy where I am exactly.”
However, writing for the authoritative La Gazzetta dello Sport, Luigi Perna suggested that a clause in the 18-year-old’s current contract means he would be free to switch to another team for 2017 unless he is promoted from Toro Rosso to the Red Bull senior team.
“Will the Cavallino (Ferrari) finally take a risk with a young driver or renew for a fourth year with Kimi Raikkonen, and thus pleasing Vettel?” Perna wondered.
But in a move that might be interpreted making a curtsy towards Maranello and endearing himself to Vettel at the same time, Verstappen told La Gazzetta that of his Formula 1 peers he is most impressed with the quadruple world champion.
“Drivers that are comfortable with their team and know how to motivate them always stick out to me,” observed Verstappen and added, “Vettel is a great example of that. I think that spirit is the most important thing for a driver.”
Asked late last year if youngster Verstappen would fit in at Ferrari, Vettel said, “I don’t know. There are many drivers coming up, some younger than others.”
And when to compare how he and Michael Schumacher began their F1 journeys, the German responded, “All I know is that [Max[ is much younger than Michael or even myself were when we started in F1. I think it is always difficult to compare.”
“You can try to (compare) with numbers, but people are always different. Max has been brilliant in many races and deserves congratulations, but he is also very young and still has a very long way to go,” added Vettel.
Meanwhile, with regards to the growing rivalry with teammate Carlos Sainz, which led to Verstappen’s temper tantrum in Melbourne, the teenager said, “We both want to beat each other, but that’s normal for team mates.”
“We push each other to the limit. But I don’t live this as a struggle, I’m much more concentrated on making sure that I keep improving. Away from the track Carlos and I have had some great moments and I hope it will continue to be like this,” concluded Verstappen.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In depth writeup on Verstappen, I think it's weird how this sport talks up certain drivers and the headline here, is he ready for a top team in 2017. Jules Bianchi was ready way when and still wasn't brought into the fold at Ferrari. Verstappen is far from ready IMO based on what I've seen to move into a top team but I think Kyviat is leaving the door entirely open due to his performance. Don't think anyone outside of Red Bull will have an immediate interest in him fro 2017.
Motorsport -Max Verstappen is often heralded as one of the biggest talents in Formula 1, past or present. But would he be ready to move into a top team as early as 2017?
Here is a driver who has broken convention rather than followed it at every step of his brilliant career.
Verstappen's move up to Formula 1 from F3 prompted the FIA to lay down new criteria for super licences, although at no stage was there any doubt about his amazing talent.
In fact, such has been his immediate impact in F1 that silly season speculation has already placed him at Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull for 2017 and beyond.
But, despite the praise, the results and the hype surrounding him, one man who thinks that Verstappen may not yet be ready for an early leap up the order is his boss Franz Tost. Three-year plan
Toro Rosso's team principal knows a thing or two about the career progression of youngsters, having helped play key roles in the development of Red Bull juniors Sebastian Vettel, Daniel Ricciardo and Daniil Kvyat.
And his experience tells him that it takes drivers at least three years to be able to get to grips with the world of F1 before they are ready to deliver the kind of results top teams demand.
When asked if he feels Verstappen is ready for a top team in 2017, Tost told Motorsport.com: “I don’t know yet.
"Once more I just say a driver normally needs three years to understand Formula 1. If they are ready to jump to another team, it’s in their hands.” Driving is easy
Tost's perspective on Verstappen is fascinating, because his argument is based not on what the Dutchman is delivering on track – but how he handles work off it.
For Tost says that the actual driving part of F1 is the most natural for youngsters, as it is something they have honed since karting.
“In Formula 1, what drivers sometimes underestimate, is it’s not only driving,” he explains. “I would say driving for this young generation is the easiest part.
“Why? Because most of them have been racing for more than 10 years, because they start when they are four or five years old. So that means from a driving side it’s not a problem. They adapt to this very fast.
“It’s a little bit more difficult with the qualifying. Because to do optimal qualifying you exactly must know which angle you go over the kerbs, how much to use the kerbs, where is the best overall grip, what is the sun doing and so on. This you can tell a driver one hundred times, but he has to experience this.
“Then, races as well. You have to experience how to use the tyres. This is not easy. That’s really difficult. This needs a lot of discipline.
“You can 100 times tell to the driver: in corner seven you must be careful for your front right tyre or whatever. Fine.
"But then he goes out, he closes his helmet and he races, because he wants to catch the car in front of him and then he overdrives it. And this takes time. That’s driving.” Workflow
Where Tost thinks the challenge of learning how to succeed in F1 comes from, though, is dealing with how to extract the best from the whole team.
Tost added: “What’s much more complicated in Formula 1 is everything around. You have five, six, seven engineers who are working for you.
“You have the data engineer. You have the chassis engineer. You have the engine engineer. You have the power unit engineer. You have the tyre engineer.
“To get the most out of this, you have to get information from every side. How can you get it out to optimize it for your usage? Because not every driver is the same. This takes time.
“Then you have marketing, you have the press. And all this together. And therefore I always say: it’s very, very important that the drivers Sunday at two o’clock are still fresh in their head. That they are not tired. We definitely must take care of this.
“Therefore we always say: marketing events should be on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Then also big press conferences should be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday a little bit less, Friday less and then Saturday and Sunday they can recover and that they are ready to race.
“Because otherwise Sunday when the lights go out they’re tired. This is why Formula 1 is not so easy. The driving itself is not the biggest problem.” Emotions
One incident that highlighted an aspect where Verstappen can still learn and improve was the radio row in Australia.
He vented his fury at the team over its Melbourne strategy calls in the second half of the race – behaviour for which he later apologised.
For Tost, who has taken the brunt of plenty of youthful fury over the years, what happened in Australia was nothing out of the ordinary, but just a sign that Verstappen had not learned to keep his emotions in check when driving.
“Emotions are nothing negative, it shows just how serious [Max] takes it,” he explained. “In the car you must sometimes keep the emotions under control because otherwise you lose concentration.
“In Formula 1 especially, there is a very high level of concentration necessary, you simply must keep yourself emotionally under control.”
Proof of Tost's stance that letting emotions get in the way of concentration was borne out when Verstappen ran in to the back of team-mate Carlos Sainz, damaging his front wing in the process.
“You know, if you are upset and chatting on the radio, of course you are concentrated on something different, not only on driving,” he said. “But once more, this is part of the learning process.
“Why do I always say a driver needs three years to understand Formula 1? With all the drivers I worked together, it was at one period the same.
"They are emotional and then they come up with this [emotion], and that’s okay. But it shouldn't be in the car, it should be afterwards. But that’s normal. There’s absolutely nothing wrong.
"For me this is part of the education process. You can’t expect that everything, especially in Formula 1 which is high pressure and competition, is smooth. It’s not possible, at least in my opinion.”
And, while having sublime talent in a race-winning machine is a dream, if a team needs to turnaround, the combination of an under-form car and an inexperienced driver – no matter how quick he is – may not be ideal.
“If you are sitting in a fantastic good car, no problem,” added Tost. “If you are sitting in a car that’s maybe more difficult to drive, more difficult to set-up, then of course the more experience he has the easier it is to compensate the deficiencies. Therefore it’s too early to think and talk about this.” Driver call
Tost knows that the final call on Verstappen will not come down to him alone: as it will involve both what Red Bull's overall drivers plans are and what the youngster himself wants.
“I always say: coming into Formula 1 is one part, but then the driver has it in his hands. And he decides then about his future.
“The job of the team is to provide him with the best possible ingredients, that he can do the best possible job. And then he decides. It’s always the driver.”
All eyes then will be on how Verstappen's 2016 campaign rolls out – and whether he feels that that next big step is needed straight away or if he thinks he is better off holding fire to finish off his apprenticeship.
“Next year he will already have had two years with us,” added Tost. “I hope at least that he learned a lot, and the rest then we will see.”
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He needs a tough year of multiple mechanical failures, struggling with the car and needs to be a little more calculated on track, he's done a lot of dive bombing up the inside and sooner or later it will end with him t-boning a car taking both himself and them out of the race. 1-2 more years in a lower team and then I think he's ready.
Personally, I think Grosjean deserves a top team spot first as he's matured massively and is a classy driver now. Possibly also Hulkenburg & Perez before the likes of Verstappen.
Clearly this kid has talent. Clearly there's also been a lot of hype about him. Hype is often just that, and potential *IS* a dirty word as so often it goes unfulfilled. What bothers me though is this vitriol going around for the kid, with the Maldonado comparisons with whatever else they can sling at him.
He's fucking 18, he's a kid, and he's got a lot to learn, just like everyone else when they were 18. Not sure why it's but it seems like such a British thing, maybe because I've been hanging around F1 forums too long but there seems to be a general sense of beating down anyone that's young or risen too fast, that's not followed the proper path or something.
I know we 'Mericans take a lot of heat, most of it deservingly so but sheet the Brits are fucking ruthless when it comes to tearing people down despite their achievements.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I like Verstappen, he's been inconsistent, he's done stupid stuff, he's been a bit of a dick at time but he's 18 years old, what 18 year old isn't like that? He's supremely quick and has shown flashes of brilliance especially defending so how can anyone not get behind this kid?
Ricciardo was had some tough brakes so it hasn't quite been a like for like comparison but yesterday in qualifying he did come out on top of Ricciardo decisively and they're going to be a great and competitive pairing. I hope Red Bull doesn't do the same shit they did with Webber but frankly given them, I'd be surprised if they don't start the number 1 and number 2 driver crap before the end of the year.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For a rich kid at 18y of age, I'd say he deserves some plaudits. What did I achieve at 18...let me think, oh yeah get into university which a few hundred million others have done. Great. And at the time I felt smug thinking I achieved something.
What's winning me over is his tenacity in defending. Out of all the drivers so far, he's the only one who's shown 'desperation' in keeping a place, instead of freely succumbing just because the guy behind has DRS. He's done all he can to keep his position and the fight he has, I'd say he's got bigger balls than 85% of the drivers out there already. If he keeps his feet on the ground (relatively speaking) Schumachers records might be in trouble.
2019 - The year Mercedes knocks Ferrari off their perch.
I don't understand why there is so much hype over this kid, sure he's a good driver but... he's not a god or anything, he makes rookie mistakes just look at Monaco.
He got a seat in the car at the exact time his team were were coming into the races they should be very very good at, plus the car got an engine upgrade. If we look before he got a seat, China Riccardio got P2 in quallifying and between them they managed P3 and P4 with Riccardio being the one in 4th. Australia, they had bad qualifying session but in the race Riccardio managed to get P4. Bahrain Kvyat had a bad quallifying session and Riccardio was behind the Ferraris, in the race they managed P4 and P7 it was clear that they were the 3rd best car at this point in time, not highly behind Ferrari.
Spanish Grand Prix: - High downforce track. - I expected I expected Red - I expected P3 and P4, but they were helped by Mercedes crashing so I then expected the win for them, Ric's got screwed by bad strategy.
Monaco Grand Prix: - Maximum downforce track. - With the upgrade Engine for Riccardio I expected him to challenge for the win and they did challenge.
Canadian Grand Prix: - Medium downforce track. - The upgraded engines in both cars & it being a medium downforce track, I expected them to be fighting with the Ferraris and they did.
European Grand Prix: - New but expected the Mercedes cars to all be very fast. - Riccardio was on it in quallifying but I didn't expect Red Bull to be able to stick it out when we got into the race and as expected they finished 7th & 8th
Austrian Grand Prix: - Medium to high downforce track - I expected Red Bull to be right up there but they had a bad quallifying session, however I still expected them to get upto P3/P4 fighting with Ferrari. As expected they did manage this.
British Grand Prix: - Medium high downforce track - I expected Red Bull to be right up there yet again because of the fast corners and they were right up there again.
All in all, I expected each of the red bull drivers to have 60+ points and they both do have 60+ points, Ric with 64, Ves with 77.
One thing I've clearly noticed is Max has the edge in managing tyres which Daniel was meant to be good at. Anyways as WB said, hopefully Max and Dan are allowed race because with 2017 rules and regs coming, you never know but it could be the 2 RB guys fighting it out for glory.
One thing I've clearly noticed is Max has the edge in managing tyres which Daniel was meant to be good at. Anyways as WB said, hopefully Max and Dan are allowed race because with 2017 rules and regs coming, you never know but it could be the 2 RB guys fighting it out for glory.
Yep, agreed. Not only is he good in defense (I remember Alonso being glorified for keeping Schumacher's Ferrari behind him in Imola in 2005 I think for 30 od laps) but he's versatile. And seems to have the intelligence to manage his race. Ricciardo is no slouch, he put away Spinbastian Vettel over a season.
What I'm concerned about is Ricciardo might not get a fair shot at a title if RB is in position for it....for a couple of reasons. First, Max winning the WDC will be a way bigger story for RBs target market, secondly, Ricciardo is already distancing himself from RB in certain ways which isn't too smart for his medium-long term future at the team. It's very easy for people to forget his 1 good season with Vettel when an 18y old is matching and occasionally even beating him.
2019 - The year Mercedes knocks Ferrari off their perch.
Well RyRy that's why I say that it hasn't been the best comparison give the various goings on with Ricciardo, a lot of the results have been circumstantial and could have should have would have gone the other way were things slightly different, but that's life and that's racing.
We'll know what's what in the long run, I really would love to see Red Bull simply let the driver race so we can see it.
When you are torn between choices, always pick the one that will make the best story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯