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Post by Wß on Sept 5, 2015 17:35:10 GMT
They felt they were right. Sort of have to question every other decision made during that time frame, including the Honda wedding. I hope things turn around for them, but man... they couldn't possibly get much worse.
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Post by racechick on Sept 7, 2015 10:00:56 GMT
McLaren and Honda appear to be at breaking point. Ron Dennis has written to Honda and the suggestion is that he has asked for Arai to be removed. If Honda and Mclaren part ways, Honda will take with it its funding. Sponsors have already left and prize TV money will be minimal. It's looking bleak for McLaren. About 11 kph on the straights down on power . www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/9981224/mclaren-honda-relationship-now-at-breaking-pointHaving seen two live races this year I have to say that the Honda engine sounds dismal. It's noticeable to me with an untuned ear to things like that.
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Post by Frontrunner on Sept 7, 2015 11:36:40 GMT
What can you say... just so friggin sad to where McLaren are at the moment, Singapore should be better for them but yeah... they are still downright shocking. Imagine if Manor aren't on the grid next year. It could potentially be Mclaren that will be the Hispania or Minardi of previous season, DEAD LAST and bugger all sponsors.
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Post by Wß on Sept 7, 2015 12:48:14 GMT
It is unbelievable how far they've fallen. Ron Dennis is a stubborn man though, it has worked for him sometimes, this time it's been an utter implosion. But it's not as if we didn't see it coming. Just not this HARD.
Let's not forget the fact that the root cause of McLaren's problems began way before the Honda engine.
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Post by racechick on Sept 7, 2015 12:57:55 GMT
Yes. We saw it coming loud and clear. It's just a lot of people put their fingers in their ears, looked the other way and went 'lalalalalalalala' .
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Post by Wß on Sept 7, 2015 13:11:04 GMT
This line from Jenson Button pretty much sums it all up.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 7, 2015 13:18:19 GMT
I said it once before on the - Ron is like a old heavy weight champion thats come out of retirement and has monumentally misjudged the current generation and how things have moved on since his day. If its true that he rejected Johhny Walkers offer of 43mill for title sponsorship 'because it wasnt worthy' then he is capable of misjudging Hondas culture and commitment of resources to works team integration comparable to Merc. He cant suddenly have realised that he doesnt even have control over Arai, let alone be able to hire and fire engine team personnel They are handcuffed to Honda, completely, at a time already pissed off shareholders are waiting for him to buy them out in the first place, and if there is a fallout with Honda, i.e no more free engines then its likely insolvency beckons. All because of trying to make a silk purse out of a lame duck
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Post by racechick on Sept 7, 2015 13:33:38 GMT
This line from Jenson Button pretty much sums it all up. Hmmmmmm. Couldn't pull it together because of you m'dear. You and your doe eyed boss.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 7, 2015 13:52:11 GMT
Hold on, what did lame duck say?
We were? Did he forget the period when he was getting lapped by his teammate and the whole team was tasked to equalise the performance, thereby throwing away a Lewis WDC?
the MP4-28 was the best car ever made around Button - his results prove his destruction of the teams performance
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Post by Wß on Sept 10, 2015 15:04:25 GMT
July 2014
September 2015
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 10, 2015 17:29:37 GMT
At least they have the disturbingly marketable Button to offset the poor performance. Afterall Button is a WDC and is loved and wanted by Honda. And everyone knows that when the car is perfect Button can be unbeatable!
What could possibly go wrong
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Post by racechick on Sept 10, 2015 19:31:19 GMT
This is a good article saying what exactly it is that's wrong with the McLaren engine. Which bits of the engine ( and it explains the bits of engine) are not good enough and why. And it says what they have to do to sort it out. It makes comparisons with the other engines and also the other chassis. Mercedes really is the crème de la crème. I thought this bit was interesting ..... "Engineers rate the McLaren as about the fourth or fifth best chassis in F1 - behind Mercedes, Red Bull and Toro Rosso, in the region of a Ferrari." If that chassis is in the region of the Ferrari, putting the Ferrari chassis forth or fifth it must mean the Ferrari chassis isn't very good or its engine is very good. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34208407Anyway that article was helpful to me. You guys probably know all that engine stuff . In the light of that article, does anyone know why does the Honda sounds so very bad compared to all the others? What is it about those things they said were at fault that makes it sound so bad? Generally it sounds at its worst when going out of the corner.
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Post by Wß on Sept 10, 2015 19:43:26 GMT
Interestingly McLaren fell to the same trapping that Ferrari fell to last year. The highly touted size zero chassis meant a compromised engine. Sound familiar? Live and learn... or don't.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 10, 2015 19:45:26 GMT
Recently Red Bull gave Ferrari a thumping on a track not dependent on sheer engine power. So the Ferrari chassis is not as good as RBR/STR but not as big a deficit as the Renault engine is to the Ferrari.
Sounds like Honda made the same type of mistake Ferrari did at first - focus on aero to the detriment of the PU. They tried to make the most compact size zero engine and made the turbo smaller than the others hoping to offset with aero gain. And at the same time inherited all Horners weaknesses with trying to package heat sensitive kit without adequate venting
Honda have to redesign the engine, bigger turbo and either open up the size zero to allow more air inside the V or remove the turbine from the V and use a rod inside the V instead
As far as the sound, thats likely to be down to the axial compressor - like a poor mans jet engine
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Post by Hammer on Sept 12, 2015 6:38:09 GMT
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Post by Wß on Sept 12, 2015 11:31:31 GMT
They have adware... they need the revenue.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 13, 2015 15:04:12 GMT
From the BBC article above
This adds the tangible evidence and credibility to the theory that Button destroyed McLaren
McLaren with Lewis driving and Paddy directing, could build around Maximum downforce at a cost of driveability and stability because Lewis (as famously explained by Paddy) has no problem with inherent instability and can drive around it, therefore higher but on/off downforce worked well
With Button, he has no grip or confidence with on/off downforce and so much of the top levels of down force is unuseable by him as he can only drive at the speeds where downforce is fully on and working without disruption.
So to accomodate Button the team had to compromise on their previous philosophy that worked so well, they kept trying to add comfort to max downforce - weakening things till Lewis left, at which point they completely re designed the car around 'comfortable yet still maximum downforce' massively reducing the peak and hence average level of downforce
And thats why the car became really shit overnight, and according to Andrew Benson, its only recently that the team have finally worked out why the car has gotten so much slower - and instead of continue with 'comfortable but slower downforce' they are now panicking and trying to reinstate 'maximum but disruptive downforce'
Completely makes sense, as Alonso is able to drive around instability(not as well as Lewis but much much better than Button)
This explains so much - why Lewis left, why the car was redesigned, why it was so bad, why Button said it was the best, why Honda have said its not so good, why Paddy left, why McLaren are at the back of the grid
If they had kept the original max downforce philosophy and had a brave driver, they would have likely been second behind Merc in 2013 and 2014 and would have had a brilliant baseline for Honda to work off
Well done Jenson and his disturbed mentor
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Post by racechick on Sept 13, 2015 15:12:28 GMT
Lewis and Paddy must have been tearing their hair out during that summer of 2012. I wonder if they ever spoke about the situation to each other? Probably not. What a demolition job eh.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 16, 2015 8:43:23 GMT
Imagine this guy had turned up at McLaren in 2007, Ron would have shot him on the spot lol
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Post by Wß on Sept 16, 2015 22:28:28 GMT
Pan down and you'd see the ripped jeans.
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