|
Post by Wß on Aug 23, 2015 23:34:27 GMT
Hadn't read about it on the interwebz today but the rumor mill (Will Buxton even reported on it for NBCSN) that Red Bull have sent Renault their walking papers. Now they wouldn't do that unless they had an agreement to put another lump in the back next year would they?
I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this in the weeks/months to come.
|
|
|
Post by LRW on Aug 24, 2015 4:27:49 GMT
They talked briefly about this on Sky yesterday.
The rumour is they sent a letter to Renault and said they were terminating their contract (a year early). So Renault just wrote back and said along th lines of "nope. We totally disagree. You are not."
Linking this all in with the rumour that Renault are looking to buy Lotus - How long is Lotus' contract with Merc engines ? Thia partnership only started this year - so I'm guessing it was a couple of years at least ?
|
|
|
Post by pistnbroke on Aug 24, 2015 6:02:53 GMT
So we could have a Renault Mercedes team lol
|
|
|
Post by RyRy on Aug 24, 2015 8:30:04 GMT
So we could have a Renault Mercedes team lol Well the rumours are: 1) Renault buying out Lotus 2) Audi in talks with Red Bull & Toro Rosso (To go down the Ferrari, Hass route), if this one doesn't happen they are likely to leave Renault for a Mercedes engine until they can get BMW or Audi back into the sport. 3) Sauber to switch Engine to Renault and become Renaults "test" team just like Hass and Toro Rosso Personally the only ones I can see happening is Renault buying Lotus and Red Bull / Toro Rosso to switch to Mercedes engines.
|
|
|
Post by Wß on Sept 15, 2015 18:52:53 GMT
The story is not over by a long shot, but this is a pretty big (and expected) step in the story line. It would be a massive blow to Bernie if Renault were to hang it up and would leave teams scrambling everywhere. For the sake of things, I'd like to see them buy out Lotus which used to be Renault.
|
|
|
Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 15, 2015 21:09:46 GMT
Renault are playing hardball with Bernie. The name of the game is to continue some presence in F1 that doesnt cost more than they have spent on F1 in the last few years. Ditching RBR is to cut a huge overhead because they were supplying engines for free with near zero marketing benefit. We already know they didnt want to spend anything near merc or ferrari on the hybrid engine, in fact they actually expected to profit from supplying to customers. That is obviously impossible with the most expensive yet flaky engine.
So they are holding Bernie to ransom - their offer to buy Lotus hinges on spreading their payment for the F1 entry and whats left of Enstone over 10 years, so they are looking to out lay less than 10 mill a year (and being able to quit again before complete payment). To actually run the firm and fund the team side they are looking for 'historic' handouts like the others + funds from Lopez + a severance payment from RBR for busting the contract.
Then we have the sponsors - Infinity is a part of the Renault/Nissan family and is expected to continue transferring its marketing budget to F1 - but no longer RBR but Renault/Lotus
Oh yeah and Renault also want a new TP/equity partner to join Lopez, along the lines of Merc with Toto/Niki
Only under these conditions, and Renault wont care where they are on the grid, as long as they are in F1, will they stay. They are not interested in outspending merc, cos they wouldn't have a prayer, so if they have their own team that has no upfront loading costs and is subsidised, they reckon their spend going forward will not greatly exceed their current situation, paying for RBR engines and receiving negative PR
They do have Bernie over a barrel because he needs more engine makers, however if he agrees to basically subsidise them to remain, the door is open, the door that Ferrari made with their special assistance handouts and we can expect Audi to try a similar tack 'we were historic Auto Union, pay us to join, RBR will pay us to build the engine, we want near zero costs because F1 is a joke'
|
|
|
Post by Frontrunner on Sept 16, 2015 10:55:25 GMT
Nice post cookin, good read.
The sport just looks like losing Manufacturers instead of attracting them to join up and give F1 racing a go IMO.
By 2020, it will be interesting to see how many Manufacturers will be in F!, Mercedes, Ferrari..... and yeah, anyone else.
|
|
|
Post by Wß on Sept 16, 2015 11:56:14 GMT
I don't think Renault will be leaving, but it's clear that they will not supply other teams... At least until they get their shit in order. I still believe Renault will wind up being next year's black horse. They clearly have a long term plan. From what I understand, they'd have to homologate something with this year's available tokens by the end of the year so they could build upon it at the introduction of the new engine next year.
There is no in season development for the 2016 spec engine.
|
|
|
Post by racechick on Sept 17, 2015 7:42:45 GMT
What do you make of this? renault and Mercedes talking about collaborating. I found that article quite confusing. Come on sleuths. What's behind all that. Is it saying Mercedes will find a way to help Renault sort out their engine? It also seems to say Mercedes could yet supply RBR f1tothemax.com/thisisf1-com/mercedes-and-renault-bosses-open-to-f1-collaboration/EDIT| okay i skim read it the first time.......and I read the word 'end , as 'lend' . But it does sound like Mercedes are still in the frame to supply RBR. And it sounds a bit like something's going on.
|
|
|
Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 17, 2015 9:23:59 GMT
Nothing new there at all. Mercedes and Nissan/Renault are already collaborating and have tech partnerships and platform sharing arrangements. All car manufacturers are increasingly tying up with others in this way - a looser version of merging. It makes sense all round for 2 car makers to share something rather than both spend independently. The part about supplying RBR is pure speculation added on top of that in the article. That speculation is along the lines of the recent Aston Martin branded Merc engines to RBR. Merc have said they are not supplying RBR, and they wont, they dont have to, the Renault partnership is with road cars - F1 is a drop in the ocean compared to the sums on the road car side. the clue to the bs in the article is this meaning merc want Renault to stay in F1, and to help them stay could take over supplying their troublesome customer RBR, who Renault refuse to supply any longer As if
|
|
|
Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 17, 2015 17:28:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Wß on Sept 17, 2015 21:09:56 GMT
There's a BBC article on the deal...
Loss of Infinity sponsorship, 30 million, Loss of Total sponsorship Unknown value, and they'll have to pay for Ferrari PUs which they were getting from Renault for free because of the Infinity sponsorship.
Potentially -70 million dollars less revenue not even talking about the reduced earnings finishing this year 4th instead of 2nd last year.
|
|
|
Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 17, 2015 21:30:34 GMT
No wonder they tried to pull an insurance job with 'the case of the stolen trophies'
They are just a fizzy drinks marketing firm, that got lucky for a while, yet became arrogant and lacked class. Imagine leaving Ferrari because 'customers get a raw deal' and then rejoining Ferrari because Renault gave them a raw deal, after begging Merc FIRST before Ferrari (great thumbs up for your new partner boys!)
They should have read the old adage 'be nice to those you meet on the way up, as they will be there on the way down'
Twats
|
|
|
Post by Frontrunner on Sept 19, 2015 5:48:11 GMT
Might as well forget about RBR and STR, They're F##ked. Red Bull won't compete unless Ferrari give A-spec engines to them and Ferrari only want to hand RBR B-spec engines from what I understand, don't blame Ferrari for that otherwise they're get creamed by RBR with A-spec engines. So therefore 4 cars are gone of the grid with potentially 6 cars if Renault can't be stuffed and put more focus on something else.
|
|
|
Post by racechick on Sept 19, 2015 7:10:12 GMT
bernie won't let that happen. He has to have 18 cars on the grid. He'll find some devious way of preventing that.
|
|
|
Post by Wß on Sept 22, 2015 16:29:00 GMT
Ferrari were the ones being all magnanimous offering Red Bull their engines, but not their 2016 engine. Seems like it's not just Mercedes stifling competition. Lolzers.
|
|
|
Post by Hammer on Sept 23, 2015 11:45:56 GMT
I read somewhere that Redbull as a drinks company sells about 158 cans per second in a year. Their costs for F1 is almost negligible compared to their overall global revenue.
I'd like to have a business like this one day.
Blackbull? Silverbull?
|
|
|
Post by LRW on Sept 23, 2015 12:11:21 GMT
BlueBalls?
|
|
|
Post by Wß on Sept 23, 2015 12:21:09 GMT
I read somewhere that Redbull as a drinks company sells about 158 cans per second in a year. Their costs for F1 is almost negligible compared to their overall global revenue. I'd like to have a business like this one day. Blackbull? Silverbull? It's not the amount of cans per second, it's the profit margin on those cans. Coca Cola serves 1.7 BILLION products a day. Unlike Red Bull however their profit margin on a can of coke is probably along the lines of 300% or so, not the 3000% like it is for a can of Red Bull.
|
|
|
Post by Hammer on Sept 23, 2015 12:30:11 GMT
Yeah, my point is their business is freaking profitable as it is cool. Number of cans, profit margins, and their 'face' - a young, cool, sportish brand which is super low cost and made in a 3rd world country and then jacked up to be sold to the 'hip and sportsy' market. It's brilliant.
When I think of coca cola I just think of pepsi and their funny rivalry over the years.
|
|