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Post by racechick on Jun 3, 2017 21:48:04 GMT
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Post by racechick on Jun 3, 2017 22:24:57 GMT
Second separate incident now confirmed in London and a third incident.
London Bridge BoroughMarket Vauxhall area
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Post by Wß on Jun 4, 2017 16:08:35 GMT
He's talking about American, not Donald Trump. Trump is merely the poster boy for how we got here. The long term answer, an the place to start with implementing a solution is money and who's making it and who wants to keep making it without giving it to anyone else. The entirely of the Islamic Terrorist "Cloud" is funded with oil money Primarily Saudi oil money. Ask yourself why America is so unwilling to change that? You ask what to do? This is where to start, defund the source of income.
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Post by racechick on Jun 4, 2017 18:30:30 GMT
And the families of the dead? 30 over the last week? that's a pretty big number for the UK. What do we tell them? Let's talk about energy while we have 20k potential terrorists running round the UK because the liberal elite are too shit scared to upset them? More concerned about the human rights of terrorists than protecting citizens.
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Post by Wß on Jun 4, 2017 19:02:49 GMT
The problem has been hundreds of years in the making. Exacerbated by the last 4 or 5 decades of continued economic wealth shift from the haves to the have-nots. The idea that people want something done now and the problem fixed short term is insane and continues the snake eating its own tail thought process.
You have to look for long term solutions, there has and always will be terrorism, the flavor of the day happens to be Islamic fundamentalism and happens to be a world wide problem. Hence we need a wold wide solution. The EU for the time being is front center but it's a global stage.
Now the fashionable word is internment? How myopic is that?
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Post by racechick on Jun 4, 2017 20:36:01 GMT
Myopic? We have 20 thousand suspected terrorist in the UK and you think it's myopic to want them removed from society? Well we'll have to disagree on that one.
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Post by Hammer on Jun 4, 2017 23:06:31 GMT
I agree with WBs post in regards to what is causing the actual source of the whole issue. We're in a little cycle where the cockroaches are actually 'allowed' to breed when the powers at be can actually put a stop to it, but it would be counter productive for them to do so....at the expense of their people.
RC, the 20k suspected terrorists could be sent back or killed in order to bring back peace to the UK....for a few months or maybe a year. But the breeding ground still exists which means you will eventually get back another 20k suspected terrorists in the future.
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Post by Wß on Jun 5, 2017 2:23:20 GMT
So project that out. Out of those 20K suspects how many are actually radicalized vs. simply fit the profile? How many are citizens? How many are innocent? How do you go about picking them up getting rid of them sent out of the country or rounded up and held for no reason other than being a suspect? Internment is a way to turn 20k suspected terrorist into 20k actual terrorists.
Like a Chinese finger trap, the long term solution is working with rather than against. There is no short term solution.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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Post by racechick on Jun 7, 2017 0:28:20 GMT
When the civil liberties and human rights of terrorists matter more the the civil liberties and human rights of innocent victims, then there's sinething seriously wring with the world. I don't know how many if the the 23K jihadists in th UK are Britush citizens or illegals, but the security services do know. And there are ways of dealing with them whichever group they belong to. All the latest terrorists were on 'Watch' by security. One had been declined asylum but couldn't be deported because of EU laws. The sooner we're out if that the better! Another had been on tele in a documenarty alongside a hate preacher wielding an ISIS flag. And another, had been prevented from leaving Italy to join ISIS, but managed to find his way to London. Do you know we allow people back into the UK after they have gone to fight for ISIS. 500 of them in fact. Can you believe that? They've been raping and killing, they have blood on their hands ( words of ex Cobra chief) Do you think they return and settle down in the UK in a nice 9 to 5 and become model Uk citizens? They don't, they recruit. Like the Saudi mosques recruit, like radicals in prison recruit. Enough now. Enough of this. There will be measures to deal with terrorists. We have some, but they are rarely used. They will be, and there will be more. Security chiefs and people in the UK are calling for it. Let's hope it doesn't take a big one like 9/11 to wake politicians up. Not all terrorists are stupid. All it takes is an intelligent one and our security with their hands tied and bang! We have the big one.
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Post by Wß on Jun 8, 2017 19:14:25 GMT
Civil rights are civil rights racechick you don't get to choose who they apply to because they apply to everyone (citizens) equally. Hitler used internment in WWII as a means to gather up Jews. Has the world learned nothing?
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Post by racechick on Jun 8, 2017 20:01:50 GMT
Civil rights are relative to the context in which you are living. They are not absolute they are relative. Would you grant civil rights to Nazzis during world war 2?
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Post by Wß on Jun 8, 2017 20:23:45 GMT
The Nazi's ran the government, they did what they did. The reason they did was because no one questioned the legality of what they were doing. Internment is never the answer in a society that is looking for a long term solution. Like I said 20k suspects will turn into 20k actual radicalized terrorists and breed twice as many more. You charge people that commit crimes, assisted, aided or were an accessory to a crime and you arrest people when there's enough evidence that they're going to commit a crime. If you move away from that process you are no longer a country of due process law. It's what separates the UK from say Bahrain or Saudi Arabia or Thailand, or the Philippines.
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Post by Wß on Jun 8, 2017 20:35:49 GMT
BTW we've had over forty people killed in this country in mass shootings/knifings since Manchester... none of the attackers were Muslims, have you guys heard about them over there? I only wish we could get the same level of media attention to some of these.
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Post by Wß on Jun 14, 2017 20:12:08 GMT
Change that to two today, there was another one with four people killed in San Francisco, and it's only 4 PM on the east coast.
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Post by racechick on Jun 14, 2017 21:03:01 GMT
Oh that's ok then. Because you have crazy gun laws resulting in shootings in the states we should give terrorists a free pass in Europe.
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Post by Wß on Jun 15, 2017 13:51:09 GMT
No, that's not the point. A tragic loss of life is a tragic loss of life is what I was going for. I know you're angry at the entirety of the situation but as a society, looking for solutions to problems that you're not willing to first fully understand is the reason why we're here in the first place.
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Post by racechick on Jun 15, 2017 21:01:22 GMT
Loss of life is always tragic, which is why you should try to mitigate it.
There's just been a tragedy in London, many dead, with a tower block burning down. It should never have happenned. There will be an enquiry, hopefully lessons learnt to prevent future tragedies, lessons like ...... -Don't clad tower block in plastic tiles -Have sprinkler systems -Have working fire alarms ( yes really!) -have more than one staircase in high rise blocks.
Gun crime in US An obvious one, dont let any tom, dick, harry or terrorist have guns! All these accidents with kids getting guns would be over. If I was a US citizen I'd be going crazy over guns, but I'm not, and I've got enough stuff I'm going crazy over,
8 of your deaths this year were Islamic terrorists. That's bad, but comparitably light compared to other countries. England is 35 for this year so far. Do you know what the worlds total is? For Islamic Terrorist deaths? Well just for April, May and part of June , its 3,511.
So you mitigate the chances of citizens dying by terrorist actions - don't let them in - if they're in, find them and remove them That's not that difficult...unless you're in the EU, and then you can't remove them. We have a terrorist we've been trying to deport for ten years, he's fighting deportation using legal aid, £2,500 of legal aid. That means the tax payers are funding a terrorist to try to stay in the U.K. Taxpayers whose family He may have killed. This worlds gone crazy.
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Post by racechick on Jun 15, 2017 22:44:11 GMT
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Post by Wß on Jun 19, 2017 13:03:33 GMT
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Post by racechick on Jun 19, 2017 14:55:16 GMT
Of course it's terrorism, I watched it unfold last night. Tried to keep from venting on here. But hey ho. And it'll get worse as long as the authorities tolerate and excuse extremism and hate preaching. How many attacks in the UK Now in the last month? Five? Not to mention the thousands of schoolgirls who were groomed & raped and ignored by social serivices and the police. You know I think this shit has gone too far to do anything about it now.
Fear flaming ignorance? Why the fear in the first place? Could it be people don't want their kids blown up or raped? Protect vulnerable girls from rape gangs. Don't let 2,500 jihadists wander around the country.
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