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Post by Wß on Apr 1, 2017 13:33:02 GMT
Y'all ready for this? After last Friday's meeting Here's the consensus. Simpler and louder engines. Nothing wrong with all of the above right? But when you look at the individual points, it's all fluff. What's the implication that F1 isn't already the pinnacle of motor sports technology? Why then the resistance to moving away from 13" wheels and tires if this is the case? A lot of double speak and lip service, but let's continue. That's a a fair statement, but there's nothing here that couldn't be addressed with a continuation of what's already here. Additional power will come with additional long term development and leaving the fucking regulations alone will lead to increased efficiency while greatly reducing production costs long term. The fans are not asking for better sounding engines, they're asking for the sound of a V10 of V12 engine and that's never going to happen unless you're going to bring back a V10 or a V12, and since your own line item one says it must remain road relevant it's nothing but a contradictory "wish" that's not going to happen because you can't deliver on what the actual request is. So why not tell fans, we have the most powerful and most efficient F1 engines ever produced, that's what the sport, that's what the world is today, get used to it. This is the biggest head scratcher because it could have been fixed with THIS regulation chance, but it wasn't. Reduce the dependency on aero, you've already given the cars wider longer lasting tires, just increase the fuel capacity and rate of fuel flow and give teams an extra engine or two instead of limiting them to four for the entire season and voila, problem solved without the fans waiting for 2021. So in conclusion, let's see how this develops, because it's F1 and we know how things are.
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Post by stonemonkey on Apr 1, 2017 16:03:57 GMT
Is this anything to do with Brawn?
Strange to hear that hybrids and economy don't have relevance to road cars.
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Post by dogued on Apr 3, 2017 12:09:02 GMT
Trying to work out ground rules for 2021 now is like trying to design a jumbo in 1930. A given is that hybrid technology is here to stay, especially if the plan is to keep F1 advances relevant to road cars, but how different is it likely to look in 4 years time? Current electrical systems on F1 cars, designed in 2013, are already being beaten by road cars and other formula. If F1 is serious about being at the forefront of technology then they need to move away from dictating what an engine supplier can and can't do. Instead, for example, have a base guideline of "ICE to be V6" and "must only use 105kg of fuel". If cost is an issue, put a max price on the engine, I'm sure manufacturers can work to a budget if required. Then engineers can be allowed to "go nuts' and try a bevy of new tech to gain an advantage.
The engines, as seen by power output and lap times, are not an issue. Give it another year or so for all the suppliers to average around the same output, and we should see some very tasty racing. The tyres (from a VERY limited data pool of 2 tests and 1 race) seem to be in a good place, offering performance and durability. Just get that aero spec sorted to allow closer following, and I think F1 is looking good over the next couple of years again.
As an aside, and I am ashamed to be asking without knowing the answer myself, what made 2011 so great for on track overtaking? It has the highest average per race (59.06) of any season. If we see these cars lapping at 2004 era pace and averaging 55+ on track overtakes per year, I don't think we have anything to complain about, aside from dodgy strategy calls!
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Post by Wß on Apr 3, 2017 12:19:45 GMT
I'd love to see the numbers for non ERS assisted overtakes.
What I said in the F1 survey is simple and the same I've been saying for a good long while. It's not about overtakes. It's about the fight for an overtake. As we saw in Melbourne, you can't get within 1.5 seconds of the car in front without seeing major draft issues and consequently eating through your (even these new and improved) tires in a handful of laps.
I'm a fan of good defending from a driver but you can't have good defending if the guy in back can't attack, attack, attack, attack lap after lap.
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Post by dogued on Apr 3, 2017 22:35:37 GMT
I'd love to see the numbers for non ERS assisted overtakes. I can't believe that is what I forgot! 2011 saw DRS and Pirelli join the sport. Anyway, record for most overtakes in a dry race is 161 during 2016 Chinese Grand Prix. Let's see how these cars stack up!
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Post by Wß on Jul 12, 2017 18:52:29 GMT
Here we go again. Stop teasing me if you don't mean it.
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Post by Frontrunner on Jul 13, 2017 10:12:46 GMT
Me likey!
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Post by Hammer on Jul 13, 2017 10:17:18 GMT
Wow that'd be cool. Might help put pressure on other german cos like VW or BMW to also consider entering the frame.
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Post by Wß on Aug 8, 2017 14:36:26 GMT
in a sport of deny everything, "not denying it" I'll take that as a great reason to be cautiously optimistic.
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Post by London on Aug 23, 2017 17:00:14 GMT
Volvo said 'NO' for the same reason as Aston Martin : Cost control.
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Post by Wß on Aug 24, 2017 12:11:22 GMT
Porsche to Formula 1 with Williams - it makes senseMotorsportweek - Porsche will quit the FIA World Endurance Championship's LMP1 class at the end of this season, but the signs are that the ultimate goal is not to rely only on Formula E and that Porsche's next stop will be an F1 deal. The company already has all the technology required to create a current F1 engine and while it is unlikely to win anything before the new F1 rules come into place in 2021, there is a very obvious strategy which it could take to be in a great position for the next F1 era. The word in Budapest before the summer break was that Porsche will come to F1 - perhaps with other VW brands following as well - and that the obvious deal would be to go into partnership with an established team, in order to avoid having to invest in expensive chassis technology and infrastructure. While it is assumed by most people that this would involve a deal with Red Bull Racing, it is much more likely that Porsche will go to a team which is a little bit more manufacturer-friendly. McLaren has its own agenda with engines while Sauber and Toro Rosso are in the wrong places. Haas is a Ferrari satellite. Force India might be a possible partner, but while it has a great group of engineers it needs a huge amount of capital investment.. All of this means that the best available choice is clearly Williams F1, not only because the team has a great heritage and decent facilities, but also because it needs a manufacturer to get it back to winning, which a customer Mercedes engine deal will not do. There are also other elements that make Williams the obvious choice, not least the fact that it is sponsored by Porsche's traditional motorsport partner Martini & Rossi and the various brands fit very neatly together. The Martini Porsche relationship goes back nearly 50 years and is a brand that is instantly recognised outside the confines of F1. Williams is also a company that is listed on the stock exchange in Germany, which means that the potential for a full takeover of the Williams group exists, if the family wants to sell out to Porsche at some point in the future. This need not all happen tomorrow, but there is a great deal of long term logic in such a relationship. As they say, watch this space!
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Post by Wß on Sept 5, 2017 11:39:00 GMT
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
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Post by London on Sept 7, 2017 18:21:45 GMT
Red Bull are in the most prime position for 2021 if new engine suppliers come on board like Porsche. They are by far he biggest and most marketable team without any automotive industry ties in the sport. Toro Rosso Honda just keeps an option in its back pocket and if by some miracle Honda get it together then they are in the box seat. That is the beauty of having a B team.
Will McLaren be the real loser by listenning Nando since they will not have any short term ongoing relationship with Honda ? There are already talks of damage payments and lawsuits. McLaren Renault is a short term fix until 2021 where Mclaren will maybe get Mercedes power as Mercedes will maybe drop out of the sport as a works team, or McLaren will become a work team. The future of McLaren is kinda obscur.
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Post by London on Sept 7, 2017 18:26:34 GMT
Why Porsche would choose Williams instead of RB ?
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Post by Wß on Sept 7, 2017 19:22:56 GMT
Why Porsche would chose Williams instead of RB ? If they were interested in a works team Williams makes the most sense; 1-Tradition, they already have an "ICONIC" working partnership in motorsports with Martini 2 - Recent motorsports relationship with Williams, Porsche has used a Williams Motorsports ERS "flywheel" technology for energy storage. 3-Price Williams would have to be far cheaper to buy into 4-Influence, I think Porsche would have a lot more influence over what happens with Williams rather than Red Bull especially if they dcide to become a full werks team.
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Post by London on Sept 8, 2017 1:01:15 GMT
Interesting. Maybe they do want a full technical partnership with Williams.
Also Red Bull's pissing and moaning 'toys out the pram' antics with Renault would make me think twice if I were CEO of Porsche. Porsche likely thinks they will get no credit if RB does well (as Renault got none when they were dominant).
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Post by London on Sept 11, 2017 12:30:53 GMT
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Post by Wß on Sept 11, 2017 13:36:29 GMT
It's where they both have and advantage over Ferrari and Honda. It is deemed the most costly of energy recovery components though.
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Post by London on Sept 11, 2017 15:39:52 GMT
It's where they both have and advantage over Ferrari and Honda. What ? Renault has an advantage over the Ferrari’s MGU-H ? In term of what ? It is deemed the most costly of energy recovery components though. So Mercedes and Renault want to dissuade new manufacturers to come in 2021.
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Post by Wß on Sept 11, 2017 16:01:56 GMT
I don't know about dissuading, but you'd want to fight for the advantages you've gained. I think that these hurdles are just leverage, a negotiations tool they're trying to use. It was Renault and Mercedes that teamed up in the regulations discussion back in 2010. The components of the PU are ICE, Turbo, ES (Battery) the MGU-K and MGU-H and EC (electronics). Ferrari struggled with the ICE and electronics originally, those have since been solved, and Renault with the ES and EC as well, both now solved. Honda is apparently struggling with all types of harvesting both the K and H and the ES. From what I've gathered their Turbo issues were solved, and the ICE is still not up to this year's spec as far as power.
Renault from what I understand is struggling only with the ICE unit harmonic issues, vibrations etc but their harvesting is now top notch, along with the Mercs. It would stand to reason they'd want to protect that component.
I think the regulations is pretty much agreed on, maybe a 2 (or there abouts) Liter maybe V8 just to pay the fans some lip service. Turbo or perhaps twin turbo, with an MGU-K of sorts that would then require an ES and EC of sorts. This would allow for road relevance as I belive every Hypercar going forward will have Hybrid performance boost of some sort. The costliest most complex component is the MGU-H by far, I think it's as good as gone.
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