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Post by dogued on Jun 23, 2017 9:53:00 GMT
Taking drivers since 1980, everyone has a pecking order of who they think is the greatest. Many look back at the retired drivers on the list and think "Oh they were SO much better", and I have been up for 3 days now and needed to fill in time, so thought "Why not see what the stats say?" Here will be stats as they come to me, so that on raw data we can see how each of those considered "great" rates. So please, let me know if there's other areas you'd like to compare. Looking at when wins were achieved and who was the main rival each season, you can argue that each one of these drivers has benefited from dominant cars and compliant team mates at certain points in their career. Obviously, there are some amazing drives that stand out for each of these drivers that might make you tip one over the other, but at certain key markers these drivers have all matched up. Anyway, see what you think.
| Schumacher | Hamilton | Prost | Vettel | Senna | Alonso | | Total Wins | 91 from 308 | *56 from 195 | 51 from 202 | *45 from 186 | 41 from 162 | *32 from 280 | | First Podium | Race 8 (3rd) | Race 1 (3rd) | Race 16 (3rd) | Race 22 (1st) | Race 6 (2nd) | Race 19 (3rd) | | First Win | Race 18 | Race 6 | Race 21 | Race 22 | Race 17 | Race 29
| | 10th Win | Race 50 | Race 45 | Race 60 | Race 62 | Race 71 | Race 73 | | 20th Win | Race 76 | Race 103 | Race 85 | Race 78 | Race 93 | Race 120 | | 30th Win | Race 110 | Race 144 | Race 126 | Race 110 | Race 115 | Race 188 | | 40th Win | Race 136 | Race 160 | Race 157 | Race 141 | Race 158 | *280 (32@Can17) | | 50th Win | Race 155 | Race 185 | Race 195 | *186 (45@Can17) | - | - | | 60th Win | Race 172 | *195 (56@Can17) | - | - | - | - | | 70th Win | Race 194 | - | - | - | - | - | | 80th Win | Race 206 | - | - | - | - | - | | 90th Win | Race 247 | - | - | - | - | - |
* - Ongoing
| Schumacher | Prost | Vettel | Hamilton | Senna | Alonso | | First WDC | 4th Season | 6th Season | 4th Season | 2nd Season | 5th Season | 4th Season | | Total WDC | 7 from 19 | 4 from 13 | *4 from 10 | *3 from 10 | #3 from 10 | *2 from 15 | | WDC Runner Up | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 |
* - Active Drivers Completed Seasons # - Completed Seasons
| Schumacher | Hamilton | Senna | Prost | Vettel | Alonso | | % Wins | 29.55 | *28.72 | 25.31 | 25.25 | *24.19 | *11.43 | | % Podiums | 50.32 | *55.9 | 49.38 | 52.48 | *49.46 | *34.64 | | % Poles | 22.08 | *33.33 | 40.12 | 16.34 | *25.27 | *7.86 | | % Fastest Lap | 25.16 | *17.95 | 11.73 | 20.60 | *15.05 | *7.86 |
* - Ongoing
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Post by Hammer on Jun 23, 2017 10:07:12 GMT
That's insane, Hamilton is actually vastly underrated lol
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Post by Wß on Jun 23, 2017 16:00:28 GMT
The biggest stat for Hamilton IMO is the fact that he came in as a rookie being thrust into a top team driving with a 2 time WDC at the top of his game as a teammate and still came out on top. That's pressure and IMO may be the single best showing of any of the "young guns" from the (modern) sports history.
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Post by dogued on Jun 24, 2017 6:11:39 GMT
What stands out for me is the periods of poorer results in each driver's career vs the period of dominance.
Schumacher took 50 races for his first 10, then took 26 / 34 / 19 / 17 / 22 / 12 / 41 for his next lots of 10. If he hadn't come back, his stats would appear a LOT cleaner.
Hamilton was the fastest to 10 wins with 45, but then took 58 / 41 / 16 / 25.
The other thing that stood out was just how meteoric Vettel was with him being the 2nd fastest to 20 / equal fastest to 30 / 2nd fastest to 40. I really don't like the little S.O.B., and still don't rate him as highly as others due to his struggles when qualifying outside top 5, but I do rate him a bit higher now than I used to.
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Post by dogued on Jun 27, 2017 7:58:51 GMT
Ok, forgot the "Most Idiotic Moves" category. Need to chalk another up in the Vettel column!
And move him back down on the "how I rate him" scale!
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Post by London on Aug 16, 2017 2:22:50 GMT
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Post by dogued on Aug 27, 2017 8:27:02 GMT
Will update more of this later...
but for now, Lewis ties Michael for 68 poles.
Some stats on that:
Lewis took 200 races to get 68 poles.
Michael took 241 races.
Lewis has had at least 1 pole and 1 win in every season he's been in F1.
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Post by dogued on Sept 2, 2017 16:19:38 GMT
was just comparing a couple of things...
Lewis has 58 wins from 200 races.
Sebastian has 46 from 190 races.
Even if Seb won the next 10 races, Lewis would still have a better strike rate from 200 races.
but
In 120 races from his debut, Sebastian won 39 races and 4 WDC
In 120 races from his debut, Lewis won 22 races and 1 WDC
It took Lewis another 39 races to match Vettel on 39 race wins, and he STILL only had 2 WDC at that point.
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Post by Wß on Sept 2, 2017 16:29:45 GMT
There were those saying Vettel's records would remain unchallenged just as Schumachers before him. Most of Vettel's records have now fallen.
Then you hear the crap about the "dominant car" heard something today, after Monza in 2011, same race and same time on the calendar when Vettel won, he was something like 110 or 120 points in the lead of the championship.
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Post by dogued on Sept 3, 2017 4:54:22 GMT
"Dominant car" is a cop out really. Every driver on this page has had the "best" car on the grid at some stage, be it the fastest or the best chassis, or both. But they don't give the best car to the worst driver, these guys all earned (or fell into) being in the right car at the right time and made it work. Not every car has been as good or bad as perceived however. Yes, Lewis has won a race every season, but then again his teammates (except Heki) also won a race each season showing that the car was capable of race wins. Yes, Michael dominated certain years, but there were seasons where his team mate wasn't even on a podium so could we really call the car dominant? Yes, Vettel's Red Bull was the best chassis and the Renault engine was boosted, ok so that one can't be argued  |
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Post by dogued on Sept 3, 2017 9:44:24 GMT
Compare the driver charts ** Work In Progress... started this but just had a bit of an incident at work and am down to one hand (temporary luckily!) ** Lewis Hamilton | Year | Wins | Poles | Teammate Wins | Teammate Poles | WDC | WCC | | 2007 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | | 2008 | 5 | 7 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | | 2009 | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 3 | | 2010 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 2 | | 2011 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | | 2012 | 4 | 7 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 2013
| 1 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 2 | | 2014 | 11 | 7 | 5 | 11 | 1 | 1 | | 2015 | 10 | 11 | 6 | 7 | 1 | 1 | | 2016 | 10 | 12 | 9 | 8 | 2 | 1 | | 2017* | 6 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
Sebastian Vettel *2007 was only 8 races (1 BMW Sauber, 7 Torro Rosso) | Year | Wins | Poles | Teammate Wins | Teammate Poles | WDC | WCC | | 2007 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14 | N/A | | 2008 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 6 | | 2009 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | | 2010 | 5 | 10 | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | | 2011 | 11 | 15 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | | 2012 | 5 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2013
| 13 | 9 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | | 2014 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | | 2015 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | | 2016 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 1 | | 2017* | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 |
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Post by Hammer on Sept 3, 2017 9:48:52 GMT
Biggest takeaway from that is Jenson Button only managed 1 solitary pole in 3 years while having a race winning McLaren. And that single pole came because of a technical disadvantage for Lewis thanks to a Ron Dennis revenge ploy. Lol
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Post by dogued on Sept 3, 2017 10:09:31 GMT
Also, Lewis took 31 poles in the same years his teammates took 7. Wins aren't as clear cut, with 22 wins to teammates 15. But when I do Vettel and Michael we'll see a little clearer.
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Post by Wß on Sept 8, 2017 11:30:48 GMT
The limitation Lewis will always have in any head to head comparison of stats is the lack of a dedicated number two driver as compared to others. Shumacher despite some great performances was externally aided in ways that were both clear and intangible. When you consider the impact tires has on a car, having tires that suit 'you' is the panacea of racing. Won't even get into the teammates moving over at the press of a radio button thinggie. The other factors is the quality of driver pairings, with the exceptions of the "greats" Senna and Prost, the driver pairing of Vettel and Schumacher leaves a lot to be desired. Actually seeing the pairing of Vettel and Ricciardo in 2014 speaks volumes. Kimi is a shell of his former self and a bridled shell at that, Webber was a journeyman driver that happened to get lucky in the Red Bull years and was also not Dietrich and Helmut's favorite love child. EDIT: hope your hand is better by now dogued |
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