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Post by Wß on Sept 4, 2015 12:03:45 GMT
That's the core issue though, it's not merely that Mercedes got it right, it's that Renault, and Honda got it woefully wrong. Ferrari got it wrong as well but they've manged to make strides this year. I think the same will happen for them next year and we'll finally begin to see the natural developments reach their potential and make things closer across the board.
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Post by Frontrunner on Sept 7, 2015 14:12:29 GMT
Red Bull-Renault, Red Bull-Mercedes or Red Bull-Ferrari, Starting to sound like the latter with the recent chit chat going on at Monza but still a long way to go yet till something is set in stone.
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Post by Wß on Sept 7, 2015 14:58:26 GMT
Hmmm... thinking about this, the situation is complicated to say the least. Can Ferrari given its troubles also provide engines to; Sauber, Haas, Toro Rosso and Red Bull? I'm simply not convinced they can.
Renault said they'd like to focus solely on their own team should they buy into Lotus, and with McLaren likely to balk at any deal Honda even insinuates to make with another team, there are not many options for Red Bull at the moment.
Ron Dennis was right in one thing, it is very difficult for anyone that isn't a works team.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 7, 2015 16:05:14 GMT
I must say that RBR well and truly got shafted by Renault and must be regretting all the bad mouthing Horner dished out to Renault and to Merc. RBR have been forced to leave Renault in 2016 leaving Renault clear to quit completely or to buy Lotus off the liquidator for peanuts. With Renault declaring that they want to be a strict works team and not a supplier thats stuffed STR as well. And now Merc seem to think its a bad idea to supply RBR (due to the risk of bad mouthing later down the line)
leaving Ferrari who have never ever supplied customers with equal units - one of the same reasons RBR stitched them up and split from them in the first place to go to Renault.
RBR screwed Ferrari and moved to Renault then badmouthed Ferrari then badmouthed Merc then badmouthed Renault then got screwed by Renault begged Merc for engines got badmouthed by Merc and are left with no choice but to return to Ferraris loving arms
you couldnt invent fiction this spicy
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Post by racechick on Sept 7, 2015 16:19:47 GMT
Haha. I wonder if Horner regrets his trying to turn everyone against Mercedes now with his silly equalisation talk? What a complicated situation we have here. Both Merc and Ferrari have said they'd supply RBR , but now Merc have cooled off. I wonder what was actually behind the initial being ok with it, and then the cooling off?
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 7, 2015 16:53:45 GMT
I think Merc were stringing RBR along a little, they did the same over the engine unfreeze
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Post by racechick on Sept 7, 2015 17:47:45 GMT
Oooh nice one! So Merc dangled the carrot but when RBR finally cut with Renault for definate the carrot was pulled away. Toto does this stuff very very well, because he comes over as very genuine and amenable, it's easy to forget he's a hard nosed business man. Whereas Horner just comes over as whiney. I know the engine decision isn't down to Toto but I'm sure he's well in the know about what's happenning, what's going to happen and what's not going to happen.
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Post by Wß on Sept 7, 2015 18:11:27 GMT
One thing Dieter is very good at is cutting his losses. It's why Mercedes kicked Chrysler to the curb for a loss, years before they knew they'd implode.
It really does look like Renault is in the driver's seat with Lotus and Ferrari have to step up their business to provide engines to four customer teams that are sure to know they'd be getting a second rate effort for their money. Even AMG Mercedes said it's difficult to provide support for four teams, let alone five.
Honda has to expand or Mercedes has to make their Lotus contract available to whom? Out of the teams left it would have to be either either Sauber, or Manor. I doubt that Haas would break ties with Ferrari since they're relying on both their drivers and technical support.
This is just too juicy... copying it over on the silly season thread!
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 7, 2015 18:55:49 GMT
There was such a massive cultural mismatch with the Chrysler Merc marriage. Dieter only knows complete domination, control and assimilation. Makes sense that a mouthy high profile maverick customer like Mateshits will be hi idea of a living nightmare
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Post by Wß on Sept 9, 2015 12:24:19 GMT
Well we know for sure that Merc won't power Red Bull wings now that the leading candidate is Ferrari...
However, I'll believe that when the contract is signed. Too many variables, too many what ifs and Bernie is as always pulling strings. The sticking point between Red Bull and Renault is their insistence on being the prime focus of Renault. Something that just will not happen should Renault buy into Lotus.
We saw the jump in engine power (not nessesarily driveability) that Ferrari did over last winter, I think Renault is due next. I know Red Bull knows that, so why leave the bird in hand? This may all be posturing but it could very well be a done deal. Linking Verstappen to Ferrari in 2017 as part of the engine deal. Since I've no skin in the game I can comfortably remain on the sidelines.
As it's been said in the silly season thread. I would like to see Daniel back in a top tier car.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 9, 2015 16:34:23 GMT
Reminds me of a certain butthurt lame duck saying he 'hopes Lewis will come to regret leaving Mclaren if he wants to win again' sounds like RBR are starting to retrace their arrogant recent steps
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Post by Wß on Sept 9, 2015 19:00:10 GMT
Sounds like he knows he's getting sloppy seconds even before the Red in is dry.
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