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Post by racechick on Oct 6, 2017 13:41:58 GMT
F1 is becoming more of a show and less of a sport and it's irritating beyond measure. I am looking at it specifically from the Vettel Hamilton championship scrap. They want it to go to the wire. I suspect they would like a Ferrari win. But they can't be too obvious, so if not this year then start earlier next year? So we have....... prior to Baku ( help me out here) I've forgotten what it actually was, but I remember Vettel wasn't given a penalty because ' they didn't want to interfere with the championship' ....which is exactly what they were doing by not treating all competitors equally. The show must go on! Baku- a menial penalty for rear ending Hamilton during a safety car period. Nothing, despite the FIA taking another look at it, for DELIBERATELY losing temper and turning into a competitor. No penalty. The show must go on! Singapore- cutting aggressively across the track and causing an accident taking out several competitors. No penalty. The show must go on. Malaysia- speeding up and cutting across Stroll on warm down lap- no penalty. The show must go on. (I've heard there's new on board evidence showing Vettel the guilty party. ) Hitching a a ride back in another car. Ignore rule. No penalty. The show must go on. Removing steering wheel after a crash. No penalty. The show must go on. Apparently no one reported this infringement. What? They missed it being broadcast across the world? Dont get me wrong here. I don't like too many rules and regulations but we either scrap them, or apply them to every driver without bias or championship consideration. You don't stop giving red cards in a football match because that particular team have a chance at winning the league. i think any other driver on the grid, Hamilton included would have received penalties for those infringements.
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Post by Wß on Oct 6, 2017 13:59:28 GMT
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Post by London on Oct 6, 2017 18:46:17 GMT
I fully agree. I will add that the FIA’s behavior or largess doesn't help Seb to change his attitude and improve his mental strenght under pressure. Bad implication of the rules to his detriment, to the detriment of the racing quality and driver abilities to a certain degree. I wouldn’t be surprise If he continues to make mistakes and loses championships because of that in the future (well don't get me wrong, winning a championship isnt only about that). But at the moment I don't really mind the cheating because I am convainced that Hamilton doesn't need FIA assistance to win his fourth title. I also believe this championship is more about the driver package than the car package : Hamilton > Vettel. Well my last sentence sounds obvious a bit lol, when 2 cars is likely equal, of course the quality of the drivers will make the difference.
Attitude and aggravation could cost Sebastian Vettel the F1 world title.
Other thing is the FIA's behaviour is a reaction to the demand of the fans : they want to see a fight no matter how.
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Post by dogued on Oct 7, 2017 5:36:09 GMT
prior to Baku ( help me out here) I've forgotten what it actually was, but I remember Vettel wasn't given a penalty because ' they didn't want to interfere with the championship' ....which is exactly what they were doing by not treating all competitors equally. The show must go on! no, that one WAS the Baku incident. The stewards didn't issue a black flag because they didn't want to interfere and figured the FIA could always hold a meeting and DQ later. The hitching a ride wasn't punished because *insert reasons* and wouldn't have mattered who it was. The one who got a reprimand last time was for crossing the track to hitch a ride... getting on without really setting foot on the track is allowed to sneak through. As for the wheel thing, yeah I get that it deserved at least a reprimand... but there are other things that have slipped through because they weren't reported. Watch that Malaysia briefing video and see Charlie say to Perez at the end "looks like you got away with that one!" because nobody reported it. The Stewards are being pressed to "let things flow" and not be so uptight on things, so are pretty much staying out of things till a report is made. That's why Force India were on the radio to Ocon last race asking him things that were VERY obvious on replays but needed the words "HE HIT ME!" so a report could be made. You don't stop giving red cards in a football match because that particular team have a chance at winning the league. Ask any losing Manager after an FA cup final or hard fought season and they'll say very different!
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Post by racechick on Oct 7, 2017 7:38:23 GMT
So you don't think this leniency on Vettel has anything to do with trying to set up a last race show down? I do
I think they should have a group that look at incidents and apply rules that are completely seperate from the FIA and the managers of F1. But that's not gonna happen. Too much money in the sport, too many vested interests, too much opportunity for corruption.
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Post by Wß on Oct 7, 2017 21:46:10 GMT
So you don't think this leniency on Vettel has anything to do with trying to set up a last race show down? I do I think they should have a group that look at incidents and apply rules that are completely seperate from the FIA and the managers of F1. But that's not gonna happen. Too much money in the sport, too many vested interests, too much opportunity for corruption. If the Baku penalty and the race stewards comments afterwards of not wanting to impact the championship race aren't enough to convince someone, then nothing will.
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Post by dogued on Oct 7, 2017 22:34:00 GMT
I don't think it's Vettel specific, but I do agree it's to "add to the show". I have no issue with the directive being given to "lighten up" on in race incidents and BS stuff, but the specific "we didn't want to effect the championship" statement should have been met with a firm response from the FIA. It's all well and good to do it behind closed doors, but airing it in public makes the sport look bad. Addressing your earlier comments, and you know I'm not a Vettel fan by any stretch, I can see why those incidents weren't punished. Without having all data available, we rely on camera angles and our (often biased) views to help shape what we think occurred. Playing Devil's advocate here.... In order: Baku - I agree 100% that in my book it should have been slammed and a DQ issued. BUT there is the argument that Vettel had his hands off the wheel and was gesturing at Hamilton while the car pulled itself into the Mercedes thanks to road banking and initial angle. That intent was not there, just poor judgement and irresponsible driving, for which a stop-go is the right penalty. The FIA have steering / accelerator / brake data from both cars and can simulate trajectories etc etc etc. Would so many be so upset if Lewis had gone on to Win and Seb finished 5th? Singapore - He was aggressive and I agree it was 90% his fault (the rest on Kimi). BUT there is the argument that many many many drivers have and will take aggressive lines from Pole when they feel they are under threat, and that he had no idea Kimi (who let's be honest here, has been a lead brick at starts all year) would have a blinder and be on the inside. Does the telemetry show a straight constant line, was there movement from any of the drivers? For ages fans have moaned at the heavy handed stewards, especially on lap 1 incidents, so I can see why this year they've taken a more "we'll start looking at lap 2" approach for the majority of things. But if they did punish someone, why not Kimi for aggressively pushing back across Max? Why not Max for not slamming on the brakes and missing what he could see coming a mile off? If Seb had gone right across straight away, I think it would be different, but it was well clear of the start line when he began to move over, which is often something we see. Malaysia - I agree it was a stupid move from Vettel and totally not needed. BUT there is enough contrasting footage around to cast doubt over who exactly was to blame without seeing raw telemetry on steering input. Would there be as much debate if it was Massa and Alonso who touched, or are we focusing too much on Vettel's aggression / Stroll's inexperience to influence our thoughts? I think the stewards made the right call in not making any call on that one, although I do also think it would have been nice if Seb got a gearbox issue from it The Wheel - I'm petty, I'd have liked him to get a reprimand! BUT as I said, there are other incidents that have gone past without penalty because they weren't reported to the Stewards. While they can and do investigate things themselves, I think they tend to take a "wait and see" approach to some of the non-racing rules and less serious racing breaches. Take early in the season when Ricciardo & Perez got a reprimand for being late to the Anthem, Ocon was also late but wasn't on the report to the Stewards so got away with it. I've no doubt that they saw he wasn't there, but nobody reported it like they did with higher profile drivers. In Singapore, Perez gained some places illegally after turn 1 because the safety car came out and everyone was so busy they didn't report it, so he got away with that one. Conversely, I think part (a very small part) of the reason Kyvat has so many penalty points is that almost every overtake his does is met with "what did that idiot do! CHARLIE!!" radio from the other cars. There are plenty of drivers who should have had penalties who have gotten away with it, but don't because the driver doesn't moan.
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