roman
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Post by roman on Mar 18, 2015 18:21:49 GMT
Does it irritate anyone else when a once dominant team doesn't perform as well as it has been used to, losing its dominance, and then complains that the regulations should be changed when another team does well.
The latest example of this is Christian Horner and the Red Bull team. Red Bull has threatened to leave F1 if things don't change.....
So it was ok for Red Bull to dominate for 4 championships back to back, but it's not ok for anyone else (mercedes) to step into the Shoes of the dominant team for a championship or two or three.
I'd like to end this thread by saying that I have nothing against Red Bull, it just so happens that they are the latest example, I could go way back and mention the behaviour of Mr Enzo keeping Ferrari dominant for so long.
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Post by Wß on Mar 18, 2015 18:31:21 GMT
The article on ESPNF1 with Horner making the complaint got bashed, it was the most posts I'd ever seen there with everyone panning him claiming him to be a hypocrite.
The thing that makes it even more incredulous to me is the fact that we had Vettel and Red Bull claiming that other teams just weren't working hard enough during their dominance to catch Red Bull. Memory is short in this sport.
I'd be hard pressed to call a one year result for Mercedes dominance. One year and it's utter and insurmountable dominance! Give me a break.
McLaren dominated the late 80s. Williams the mid 90s, Ferrari the majority of the new millennium, Red Bull the previous four seasons, so the sport is primarily a run of dominance by whichever teams gets it right.
If they leave the sport cause they can no longer compete... so be it IMO.
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Post by the2ndcoming on Mar 18, 2015 19:06:56 GMT
Does it irritate anyone else when a once dominant team doesn't perform as well as it has been used to, losing its dominance, and then complains that the regulations should be changed when another team does well. The latest example of this is Christian Horner and the Red Bull team. Red Bull has threatened to leave F1 if things don't change..... So it was ok for Red Bull to dominate for 4 championships back to back, but it's not ok for anyone else (mercedes) to step into the Shoes of the dominant team for a championship or two or three. I'd like to end this thread by saying that I have nothing against Red Bull, it just so happens that they are the latest example, I could go way back and mention the behaviour of Mr Enzo keeping Ferrari dominant for so long. First, welcome, Roman. You don't know me well yet but, could I ask a favor? Could you change your avatar. Every time I look at it, I feel like eating a boiled egg from its holder. Wait...OK, so yah, Horner's criticism and demands are both fundamentally the shitz. By that I mean, he/they/Red Bull are starting to take on this air of superiority and entitlement...something they don't deserve or have in any way earned. We can all admit, Ferrari once wore that cloth but at least they struck a deal in the back of a pub waaaay back when with Uncle Bern and they are a marquee brand for the sport. I don't agree with it but they at least have, over decades, anointed themselves and we all sorta just nodded, wink-wink and went along with it. Red Bull just came along recently and they need to understand, 4 Championships does not F1 royalty make (or some bullshit like that). Now, aside from the above, the answers to their woes are not across the aisle at Mercedes. They have backed Renault for years, starting back in their recent glory years. That partnership has been challenged and suddenly it's the top team's fault. Most people with a steely disposition would look inward and say, "If Ferrari can gather themselves up, then, so can we. It's gonna mean hard work people and we may flounder for a while until it gets better but we're not giving up. Alright, who's in with me?!" But no, first thing the knucklehead did is turn to the people who worked hard, produced a fine machine and put two decent pilots in charge of turning left and right. It's Mercedes AMG's fault we suck so they should be sanctioned. It's like a stallion continuing to father championship winning racehorses and one of the losers saying, "Oh well, this studding thing has gone too far. Off with one of his nuts so we have a shot too!" Seriously, Christian?! How embarrassing? |
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Post by Wß on Mar 18, 2015 19:18:52 GMT
just saw this...  |
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Post by LRW on Mar 18, 2015 19:23:58 GMT
What makes me chuckle is the way Horner moans about how 'we were never that dominant'. Yet there are multiple races where Redbull finished 30s+ ahead of the rest of the pack.
And then he moans about how the FiA were always doing things to level the playing field with them. What he means is the FiA just closed loopholes they exposed. Merc have just done a better job.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Mar 18, 2015 20:03:40 GMT
Does it irritate anyone else when a once dominant team doesn't perform as well as it has been used to, losing its dominance, and then complains that the regulations should be changed when another team does well. The latest example of this is Christian Horner and the Red Bull team. Red Bull has threatened to leave F1 if things don't change..... So it was ok for Red Bull to dominate for 4 championships back to back, but it's not ok for anyone else (mercedes) to step into the Shoes of the dominant team for a championship or two or three. I'd like to end this thread by saying that I have nothing against Red Bull, it just so happens that they are the latest example, I could go way back and mention the behaviour of Mr Enzo keeping Ferrari dominant for so long. Well said roman. I am not the biggest Ferrari fan in the room, however even to me the difference in the old Enzo/luca style 'unreal politik' and the recent rolled up sleeves blue collar approach from Sergio is night and day, and the results are evident. Now I am not suggesting Ferrari truly have dumped the insidious brown envelope bribery fest approach of knobbling the judges as a matter of normal business. However its obvious that they are smart enough to see a chance to hand RBR the wooden spoon and complete the whitewash of the old ways. Maybe it was the need to dress the franchise up before the IPO - but they look much more interesting with this attitude As far as RBR, its obvious this threat to quit is part of something else and this is just a strategy. They have lost all their advantages, the aero, Newey, everything that favoured them in the last regs era has been dismantled, just like Ferrari and McLaren got their advantages dismantled when Brawn and RBR brought the aero dark arts in 2009. RBR are not looking to quit now cos they are getting ther arse handed to them. They are looking to quit because its taken them a year to wake up to the reality of F1. Realities such as motoring firms and engine makers ruling the roost because of the historical importance of having the best engine. Many a garaista has come and gone on the back of a single engine suplier change. Williams and Mclaren in the days prove that the race was won before the season started by the business deal you could cut with the Japanese or French company who had a brilliant engine but no clue about racing cars. Many teams have gone from winners to complete losers via the end of an engine deal that was poached by someone else (usually Ron) RBR have no exit strategy, they did not think it through, Newey did, hes been around McLaren long enough to know. RBR should have quit when Newey did. But they were stupid enough to think a fizzy drinks maker as a customer of an engine maker who regarded F1 as a commercial venture would have a chance against a giant motor firm with every single part of the supplier chain within its control. Then they were fooled by Ferraris slow start, but the improvement for Ferrari is mainly the components working together - the divisions in the same room regularly. - Sergio,MnM legacy and now a fun guy to rally everyone. RBR realise the true extent of their predicament - even Honda/ McLaren are not integrated enough, and so RBR will never win again, even if they get Merc or Ferrari or Honda engines, becaus they just dont have the depth - they are exactly like a fizzy drinks firm building a car in a garage and trying to fit an engine, an then hoping to compete with the Jet aircraft maker down the road that has bought out a racing team to build a chassis around its 1.6 litre jet engine Like many a name before them, RBR need to literaly fuck off and die, but without the cheap bitching |
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Post by pistnbroke on Mar 18, 2015 22:16:34 GMT
Shit like this really annoys me.
F1 is about doing the best job with what you have available. Merc at the moment are doing the best job, before that red bull, before that Brawn.
I think Horners comments are more meant for his superiors at Red Bull Inc, who he promised last year was a glitch, now his excuse is Renault not being bothered.
Horner you and your boys dropped the ball. Suck it up, dig in, and man the fuck up
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Post by racechick on Mar 18, 2015 23:59:15 GMT
So say Red Bull sell, because Mateschitz wants out. Who do you think would buy it? Renault or Audi? And would they keep on Horner or would he go the way of Whitmarsh?
To go back to the opening question. Yes. The behaviour of these whining team dies irritate me a lot. It's hypocritical, and hypocrisy irritates me a lot too. Mercedes have done this through hard work, through planning, and through hiring the best there is out there to be hired. They haven't resorted to dubious tricks as the red bull did and they haven't resorted to handouts and vetoes like Ferrari did. They did it within the rules, fair and square , which makes the complainers all the more annoying.
And it beggars belief that Bernie Ecclestone wants Mercedes ' Equalised'
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Post by RyRy on Mar 19, 2015 2:47:50 GMT
Why should a team (Mercedes) be punished for doing everything right, everything by the books and just developing better than the rest.
It's Red Bull's own fault that they can't match Mercedes. Ferrari have made a HUGE step up and if they do that once more they'll be matching Mercedes. Ferrari have
already said they aim to win 3 races this year.
McLaren, Honda and Button all think that they will get there and be able to match Mercedes and clearly Alonso thinks they will get there too otherwise he wouldn't have jumped ship.
Red Bull had no complaints during their dominating (yes they dominated), their only downside was reliability and the fact they didn't get the jump on everyone in the first year of the new regulations.
Teams have winning, golden eras and usually when new regulations come in after 7-8 years the previous winning team changes, why is Mercedes any different than the Ferrari & Red Bull eras... they ALL earned their dominating sprees by BEING the best team.
Just get on with it, keep developing, think outside the box and work your way up. If Mercedes are as quick as they are then it's entirely possible for ANY other team to become as good and fast as them, EVEN Manor!
Need I mention BrawnGP of 2009... a car that most expected to be towards the back of the grid but as soon as testing came around it was obvious they would be a front runner and rightfully so they found someone that made them fast and used it to get them the championship.
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Post by LRW on Mar 19, 2015 9:38:33 GMT
First, welcome, Roman. You don't know me well yet but, could I ask a favor? Could you change your avatar. Every time I look at it, I feel like eating a boiled egg from its holder...... I changed it for you the2ndcoming - Although Im not sure if roman would appreciate it? |
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Post by RyRy on Mar 19, 2015 10:34:23 GMT
First, welcome, Roman. You don't know me well yet but, could I ask a favor? Could you change your avatar. Every time I look at it, I feel like eating a boiled egg from its holder...... I changed it for you the2ndcoming - Although Im not sure if roman would appreciate it? Why is she insanely photoshopped? Literally plastic! I forgot to say welcome Roman... soooo WELCOME!  |
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Post by LRW on Mar 19, 2015 10:42:39 GMT
I changed it for you the2ndcoming - Although Im not sure if roman would appreciate it? Why is she insanely photoshopped? Literally plastic! I forgot to say welcome Roman... soooo WELCOME! Thats no Photoshop. She obviously seems to think that amount of plastic in her face looks good?!? |
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Post by Wß on Mar 19, 2015 11:22:29 GMT
Obviously you guys have never walked into a Sephora with your wife and daughter. The girl is very pretty, I'm a fan of less is more when it comes to make up though. We're unable to stay on topic for long, especially when a woman is involved.
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Post by LRW on Mar 19, 2015 11:36:58 GMT
Obviously you guys have never walked into a Sephora with your wife and daughter. The girl is very pretty, I'm a fan of less is more when it comes to make up though. We're unable to stay on topic for long, especially when a woman is involved. WB - you obviosuly dont know who she is. Let me show you a before and after.  |
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Post by Wß on Mar 19, 2015 11:57:02 GMT
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Post by Wß on Mar 19, 2015 12:31:27 GMT
Prost chimes in... the Renault brand embassador no less. I guess no one want to take the flack Horny Spice is taking for his hypocrisy.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Mar 19, 2015 13:32:31 GMT
I still don't know who she is but you guys obviously have better plastic surgeons in the UK.  Thats what I expect DD looks like (and thats after spending the money) |
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