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BREXIT
Jul 25, 2016 22:35:50 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 25, 2016 22:35:50 GMT
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BREXIT
Jul 25, 2016 23:19:40 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 25, 2016 23:19:40 GMT
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BREXIT
Jul 25, 2016 23:38:00 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 25, 2016 23:38:00 GMT
And more...from the Guardian "Any halfway serious investigation of the relationships between our nations and regions will end up showing how much of Britain's business model is built on taking wealth and power from across the country – and handing it to a small cabal of financiers and businesspeople in central London." "A giant sucking sound can be heard in the UK today: the sound of public money and private wealth being sucked down south to London. The result is the emasculation not just of Scotland, but of Newcastle, Oldham, the Midlands, and countless other places not featured on the Circle line. " ........Except that this ignores how the rest of the UK pays for London to enjoy that wealth. Take the public-private partnerships and PFIs used from John Major onwards to build and run hospitals, schools and transport services. Adam Leaver, at Manchester Business School, looked at 657 UK companies involved in PFI/PPP deals between 2004 and 2012. Of all these schools and other public facilities being laid on across the country, 75% of the firms operated out of London and the south-east; 83% of the revenue went to one corner of the UK." "This is no longer north v south: it's the rest of the country versus a small elite in London, on which is lavished a surplus of political attention, public funds and opportunities. " www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/10/public-money-private-wealth-london-north-v-southYep. Poor, poor London, you could cry for it!
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 6:53:56 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 6:53:56 GMT
Still cause and effect
Its no longer whats wrong with the economics or how London is so mean and the rest of the country so noble, or how the City is full of greedy people, that can be argued ad nauseam
The thing that matters now is the stupidity of the action taken - running away from a massive long term project that we started in the first place to make Europe an easier and safer place to manage, and running away in the worst way possible, abandonning responsibility for the outcome of a project thats struggling, abdicating influence and responsibility, surrendering leadership of Europe, dismantling our biggest jewel - the Financial center
All because a few ancient bigots felt slighted by not getting our way on some petty legislation, and felt that Brussels were fiddling their expenses and that immigration was threatening to those communities with the least immigrants in the whole country
The causes are almost irrelevant, its the effect of this knee jerk stupidity that we have to work to solve, either by just ignoring the referendum result and postponing it ad infinitum (uncertainty not good) or agreeing a soft brexit that allows us to carry on like before except with no more influence on the laws or direction of the project we pushed for in the first place to prevent the inevitable wars erupting as fascists slowly forget the past 100 years
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 7:06:57 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 7:06:57 GMT
It wasn't a few ancient bigots. Take out pampered London , and Scotland who had other other fish to fry and it was a huge majority of the country.
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 7:40:36 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 7:40:36 GMT
Whats funny is when really thick people try and discuss the most complex situation without a clue When many in this country find it hard hows a halfwit not even from this country gonna have the brains to understand anything Haha the UK need to apologize and beg to be allowed to stay Even a baby in the UK understands that we havent invoked article 50 and havent left
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 9:18:06 GMT
Wß likes this
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 9:18:06 GMT
And in other news racechick Spanky is firmly on your side of the debate, although he knows even less that the core leave voter
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 9:37:11 GMT
Wß likes this
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 9:37:11 GMT
Wrong. Spanky is singing from your song sheet. I told you that last week. You should be worried! Very worried!! He's a mindless remainer.
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 9:51:18 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 9:51:18 GMT
He is mindless alright but is not able to follow the debate or understand the issues, only MOA seems to have any clue
Best they stick to discussing F1 tracks while looking at the wrong circuit picture
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 10:46:28 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 10:46:28 GMT
Btw, I am very impressed with your referencing this pillar of leftist intellectual provocation, we gonna make a responsible socialist out of you
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 12:21:28 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 12:21:28 GMT
Btw, I am very impressed with your referencing this pillar of leftist intellectual provocation, we gonna make a responsible socialist out of you A responsible socialist? Is that someone who purports to be concerned about class divides whilst looking on the working classes with disdain and calling them racist, xenophobic, ignorant, thick bigots who sponge off precious London? I think I'm probably a bit further down that road than you are. I read all things. Not just publications that fit the box I'm supposed to be in. I'm not in a box, I think for myself. Here's another article that you might fnd interesting. It's from 'left foot forward'. It's written by an ex far right racist activist. A guy who was a disillusioned white teenager seduced by the far right racism and violence. He knows far right parties. He is now author of a book 'Hope not hate.' Read the brief synopsis here, it tells you a bit about the man himself. www.waterstones.com/book/hate/matthew-collins/9781849541251This guy, Matthew Collins, knows a bit about the far right, and racism. It isn't on the rise he says. The far right parties are in terminal decline, and he should know, he used to belong to them. This is his response on 'Left Foot Forward' to CHannel 4's Dispatches 'Racist Britain' leftfootforward.org/2016/07/brexit-racism-doesnt-signal-rise-of-fascist-groups-like-britain-first/ Ooen your mind I say, don't close it. Don't just poor out mantra that others do. Oh! And you can't dump Spanky that easily. He's firmly in your camp. . Only one consistently speaking any sense over there is Blademan. I really feel for him!!
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Post by Wß on Jul 26, 2016 12:26:53 GMT
They wish they had this kind of activity, this kind of enthusiasm and this kind of familial love/hate. Keep it up you two, I'm actually enjoying reading through something I know little of and educating myself on both sides of the story.
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 12:39:38 GMT
Post by Hammer on Jul 26, 2016 12:39:38 GMT
They started getting too technical few pages ago and lost me. I'm just checking in time and time again popcorn ready to see how hot it's gotten, unfortunately they're controlling the discussion very well.
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Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 12:44:24 GMT
LOL! If you don't hear anything from me for a while, it means I've thrown the iPad against the wall!
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 13:44:58 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 13:44:58 GMT
They wish they had this kind of activity, this kind of enthusiasm and this kind of familial love/hate. Keep it up you two, I'm actually enjoying reading through something I know little of and educating myself on both sides of the story. This referendum has caused the biggest split on opinion down the middle in England since the reformation hundreds of years ago. That one ended with civil war, the Royal family killed and exiled, the people taking control of parliament and creating a new model army and the Catholics driven into hiding and a few years later the royal family was reinstated, the king put back on the throne and Catholics allowed to worhip and build churches also that one started with people complaining about corruption of unelected church officials based in Vatican nb; much simplified and half joking
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 15:22:15 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 15:22:15 GMT
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 16:41:22 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 16:41:22 GMT
To make a trade deal with China, we would have to give up open access to the trading bloc on our doorstep.
Theres a reason it takes a long time to cut trading deals with China as Switzerland found out - no one yet as come away with anything resembling an advantage.
Britain with a population of 60 mill negotiating a trade deal with China with a population 50x would be an exercise of stepping into a lions den. Ofcourse China would like to have trade deals with European countries in its pocket, theres a reason a trade deal withe EU hasnt been cut yet
Again there is a big difference in someone saying they want a trade deal and the actual deal cut and its implications. Trade deals take a long time with skilled negotiators because the devil is in the details and when dealing with places like China its gonna have to take ages so we dont get ripped off.
The reality is that we would have to leave the EU first and then it would take years to set up this deal, in the meantime we would face economic collapse without an open market buying 40% of our output without tariffs
Theres always a bigger picture to consider, this is what the leave campaign failed to do, to point out ALL the facts instead of cherry pick bits that dont stand up in reality
Britain making a deal is like Poland making a deal, we dont have the colonies, dont manufacture like China, what we offer now are services stuff that requires even more sophisticated protection - copyright etc. Imagine making a deal with China, would we not want to include a clause saying they will enforce copyright protection of all our IP. Thats a thriving industry overthere, and what would we offer in return? tax breaks to Chinese restaurant owners in Britain lol
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 17:30:13 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 17:30:13 GMT
Nope. Wrong. We wouldn't have to give up trading with the bloc, we'd have to renegotiate how we do it. But we know we have to do that anyway. Nothing ventured. Etc etc.
Easy? No-one said any of this would be easy,
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 17:51:41 GMT
Post by CookinFlat6 on Jul 26, 2016 17:51:41 GMT
We wouldnt have to give up trading with the bloc, but we would have to give up trading with the bloc as an open free tarrif participant - because the bloc cuts deals as a bloc - thats the whole idea of a bloc - harminisation and trading as a bloc - buying power, negotiating strength in numbers etc
To cut a deal with China we would have to leave the EU (hard brexit) and then cut new trading deals with China and the EU and any other country, we would have to unravel all the deals we have that were made thru the Eu, we would be like Canada who have just taken 8 years to negotiate a deal with the Eu that is yet to be ratified
Even if it took only 4 years for a deal with EU and Canada that would be 4 years for Welsh farmers selling with tariffs - they wouldnt survive
Ofcourse its not easy, thats why we havent been able to leave for 40 years, but if we did leave in this way it would take 10 - 20 years before we could actually assess whether we are better off trading as a country of 60mill vs blocs like China, USA and Europe or whether we were better off cutting deals as part of a bloc of 500 million customers
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BREXIT
Jul 26, 2016 18:56:37 GMT
Post by racechick on Jul 26, 2016 18:56:37 GMT
We haven't wanted to leave for forty years. A trading bloc, as the EU started out, was ok, but that isn't what its became. It became something else, more political, with more and more power going away from national governments and to the EU. Yes we have to be out of the EU to make our own trade deals with other countries. But we can pre negotiate before that, as is clearly happenning already. Once we trigger article 50 we can enter into more detailed negotiations with other countries and have deals in place for when we formally leave. If the EU don't like that, what are they going to do? Kick us out the EU ? I know theses deals take a long time , which is why things are starting already. But when we negotiate, it will be bilaterally. We won't have to wait for the agreement of 28 countries, which has made the EU painfully slow at everything. Protecting our farmers would all have to be figured into the deal thats worked out. Common agricultural policy isn't efficient and doesn't help all our farmers.
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