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Post by Wß on Sept 3, 2015 21:14:05 GMT
I'll keep it up as long as you've got questions RC. Here's an extreme example of traction due to under-inflation. It's how dragsters do it to get off the line quick. It's just not as simply as you're trying to make it, i don't disagree with you about the safety aspect, what I disagree with you is in your generalization where a generalization just can't explain all of the complexities of it.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 3, 2015 21:23:58 GMT
Cookin, I'm kinda surprised you're buying Vettels words at face value this way....what's his alternative? "I refuse to race unless the tyres are changed"? Right, that's going to happen and I'm sure Ferrari will be thrilled to hear that! Thats because I cannot believe that my initial reaction was 100% spot on. Seb was wrong to say what he did and was out of order completely to put the blame on Pirelli 100% with non reserved for his team or himself. His turaround proves he was upset about losing points and got on his high horse pointing fingers at others When Lewis had a blow out from first handing a win to Nico, we didnt hear a peep about it being Pirellis fault, or that they and the sport were ignoring the dangerous tyres and placing the drivers in avoidable danger What was the diference with Lewis? - oh it wasnt a blow out, it was just a puncture? punctures are not Pirellis fault? he didnt have warning of the puncture, the tyre didnt lose performance. Ok a blow out is more abrupt and dangerous? Punctures can cause blow out like effects and can be as dangerous at certain parts of the track and at certain speeds. So Seb lost some points and we all gotta get the rope and our hoods out, and go in search of someone to string up? after years of no dangerous tyre issues, and indeed of people like Ferrari complaining that Pirelli were too conservative, we are all expected to weep for the special needs team and express passion at the tragedy? Anyway, I do understand why some have blamed Pirelli and backed the driver, but in light of all the evidence (Pirelli tyre blow out rate since 2013) the huge amount of cuts at this particular race, the abuse of the kerbs by everyone - the abuse of the kerbs more than anyone else of a chump looking to do double the distance of everyone else and finally - the Ferrari 700th race anniversary where history tells us that these chimps always screw up in royal fashion, check the stats, at least 80% of their race centuries are accompanied by disaster brought abput by this belief that the myth they sell to hairdressers is 'magical' and so they are ordained to produce 'magical' results on special occasions
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Post by racechick on Sept 3, 2015 21:55:45 GMT
Here we have why Pirelli are providing unsuitable tyres to race on, and why the FIA have cleared them.
"We continue to have full confidence in the safety, quality and suitability of its tyres.
"Within the constraints of safety considerations, which are always paramount, Formula 1 encourages Pirelli to provide tyre compounds with performance because tyre degradation contributes to the challenge and entertainment of a Formula 1 race.
And then the really sick ending to the report.
"Thank you, Pirelli, for helping us to deliver excitement to Formula 1 fans."
Thank you Pirelli for just giving us two exploding tyres in the last race, ut was so exciting for everyone! Bernie wants exciting tyres that explode. michelin might as well withdraw their bid now because they've said they will make tyres fit to be raced on.
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Post by RyRy on Sept 4, 2015 3:19:20 GMT
Their tyres are safe, it's not their fault at all. Degradation does NOT equal dangerous unless they run them too long.
As long as teams pit within the max amount of laps (which will already be conservative) and don't do anything against Pirelli's advise then all should be safe.
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Post by racechick on Sept 4, 2015 9:08:25 GMT
Vettel/ Ferrari / Rosberg didn't do anything against Pirelli's advice. Pirelli sanctioned everything they did. It's no good Pirelli saying retrospectively that the 40 limit was too high and they shouldn't have tried a one stop.
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Post by LRW on Sept 4, 2015 9:19:35 GMT
This is what we've been missing - a decent argument two-sided discussion.
but without it getting personal. I love it.
My 2-drachma's worth: 1.5 cuts per race, over the last 15. 63 cuts in Spa. How the hell is that Pirelli's fault? Its obviously a fault with the track or how the cars were driven at Spa. End of. Unless you want Pirelli to supply rally tyres instead?
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Post by racechick on Sept 4, 2015 9:38:43 GMT
Fully agree with your first two sentences LRW, but couldn't give it a like because of the last paragraph. I'll give you a thumbs up for the first part. there you go! I can't help but feel Pirelli are making things up as they go along. After imposing strict tyre pressures on teams for Monza,mtheyve relaxed them in the face of Criticism from Hamilton and Alonso. Massa says tyres should be able to withstand debris and track conditions. That they will vary from travk to track and the tyres should cope.mi completely agree with him. This is quite a comprehensive article on the tyre situation, much of it Ive already mentioned in previous posts. www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/34141910
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Post by LRW on Sept 4, 2015 9:52:42 GMT
But 1.5 cuts v's 63 cuts. Id say thats more than a slight variation. Id say thats a massive spike that has to be accounted for, and cant be predicted?
Withstand debris and TRACK conditions, yes. Not withstand full-off-track-colin-mcrae-style conditions, as SOME drivers did.
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Post by racechick on Sept 4, 2015 9:57:27 GMT
I'm not convinced they check every single tyre after every GP with the intensity that they just have during the investigation after Spa. I think they do spot checks. But I'm not sure and can't find any information at the moment.
If drivers are allowed over kerbs the tyres should withstand it. If drivers aren't allowed over kerbs then the FIA should do something about it. They make the rules. They request the tyres.
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Post by LRW on Sept 4, 2015 10:16:42 GMT
I agree. My point is - every other track, Pirelli supply the tyres. Every other track they abuse kerbs. So what is different about Spa to give 63 v 1.5? If my maths is correct - thats a 4100% increase in cuts.
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Post by racechick on Sept 4, 2015 10:32:11 GMT
I'm not a tyre or track expert. But Id suggest that those who are should expect this from tracks like Spa and provide tyres to cover all eventualities of the track.
Also as I said, Im not sure whether they check evey tyre after ever GP, they did so after Spa because they had incidents. Whose to say there weren't cuts in tyres at other GP's but those tyres weren't checked? I don't know about this, can't find out.
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Post by Wß on Sept 4, 2015 11:39:38 GMT
I would have called RC dirty names but she'd probably like that. Anyway... just read that given conditions and more than likely results they've seen post FP1, Pirelli have just relaxed their minimum pressure recommendations!
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Post by racechick on Sept 4, 2015 11:52:08 GMT
Also after the complaints from Alonso and Hamilton regarding OTT presures.
You've been a model of restraint throughout WB!
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Post by RyRy on Sept 4, 2015 16:56:14 GMT
The difference is they were new kerbs and they can abuse more kerbs at spa, more aggressively and also at high speeds
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Post by racechick on Sept 10, 2015 23:09:09 GMT
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Post by Wß on Sept 11, 2015 17:52:15 GMT
And it sounds like the track manager at Spa has told everybody, Charilie Whitting, Pirelli, the FiA.. to screw off.
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Post by CookinFlat6 on Sept 11, 2015 20:01:51 GMT
He has got a point, even if there was debris on track, and it got removed from the track - where is it to be removed or brushed to?
Well - beside the track, outside the track, and so it would seem logical for the track owner to expect the FIA to keep drivers on the track
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Post by racechick on Sept 22, 2015 6:59:28 GMT
I really hope Michelin gets the contract for tyres in F1. They say they will bring tyres 3 sec a lap faster than Pirelli , tyres that the drivers will have the confidence on to puch and drive to their limit for the whole stint. Michelin were not prepared to discuss Purelli but it was obvious what they think of Pirelli's tyres. Pirelli responded by saying they could do different tyres if they were asked, and only made fragile ones because they'd been asked to by Bernie. But drivers and senior engineers doubt Pirelli could make stronger tyres if they were asked to. Michelin siad their tyres would provide opportunity for different strategies whilst allowing drivers to have the confidence to push for the whole stint.they said the tyre would be closer to a real road tyre, similar to what they produce for enfurance races. More details in here...... . www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34313145Bring on Michelin I say!!!!!! But Bernie will chose the one that makes him most money.
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Post by LRW on Sept 22, 2015 7:12:17 GMT
I don't understand your excitement about Michelin RC.
Pirelli are doing as asked and contracted.
If the FiA asked Pirelli to make 3 sec a lap faster, and non degradable, then Pirelli could do it.
Your annoyance and anger should be directed at the FIA and Bernie. Not Pirelli.
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Post by racechick on Sept 22, 2015 7:26:22 GMT
My annoyance is more at Bernie. But also with Pirelli for complying.
And Engineers and drivers don't think Pirelli could make such a tyre.
TheMichelin tyre would still go off at the end of its stint , but during the stint it could be raced hard.
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